Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Hungary
Reload this Page >

Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Reply

Old Jan 2nd 2018, 9:37 am
  #31  
it's not true!
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 2,862
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
As has been pointed out above and in other threads the Hungarian housing market differs substantially from the UK market. The UK market suffers from shortage which drives the price upwards until it over heats and then there is a 'correction' (crash) and people suffer negative equity until the prices recover. Hungary has an over supply of houses (but as with any fixed location commodity not everything is in the right place), a falling population and in addition to this Hungary does not have the habit of mobility that occurs in the UK, although this is changing. So supply and demand will increase prices in the UK and depress them in Hungary. Obviously location plays a part and cities and remote villages can alter the 'norm'.

With regard to the work force, Hungary is beginning to suffer the lack of skilled trades (recent TV articles) because a) youngsters do not want to train into 'dirty trades', plumbers, electricians and builders etc., the older trades people are not taking courses to keep up to date with new requirements AND the younger trades people who have a language skill have gone west for higher wages. In the Hungarian rural locations it is becoming increasingly difficult to find unskilled labour. I was talking to an Austrian farmer who, some years back, got his seasonal labour from Hungary, he now finds this not possible and his seasonal labour comes from Romania and Montenegro.

There are business opportunities here - just look at the number of multinationals who have opened up operations here in the past few years, however I don't think that there would be much chance of a small enterprise succeeding with an absentee owner / investor.

All of the above is just IMO
Expatrick is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd 2018, 11:41 am
  #32  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Hungary
Posts: 243
cathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond reputecathyg has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

IMHO I think there are business opportunities here but it is so difficult for foreigners/expats to start a business here. Not just the bureaucracy but a general feeling that Hungarians don’t welcome incomers starting new businesses.
I think we will all have thought of opportunities for example I often say to my Hungarian friends that someone needs to start a good dog panzio around where we live. At the moment we travel one hour to a brilliant dog kennel which I know is very successful. Also we need a decent sorozo/family restaurant in our village which is growing very quickly. And then every year when we go to the Strand we think oh wouldn’t it be good if there was a stall selling this or that.
I just don’t think that this country encourages small entrepreneurs but I am hopeful it will change gradually.
As To the OP I would say tread very carefully particularly if you don’t have good professional contacts in BP that know the right people.
cathyg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd 2018, 12:03 pm
  #33  
it's not true!
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 2,862
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

I just don’t think that this country encourages small entrepreneurs but I am hopeful it will change gradually.
Governments (plural) generally are attracted to the big spenders & struggle with effective schemes for smaller investors. Of course "locals" will always have an issue with new competitors!
Expatrick is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd 2018, 12:24 pm
  #34  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 283
Watchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by cathyg View Post
IMHO I think there are business opportunities here but it is so difficult for foreigners/expats to start a business here.

[...]

I often say to my Hungarian friends that someone needs to start a good dog panzio around where we live.
My area is lacking a property management business for holiday-home owners. Someone who can communicate with the holiday-home owners in English and German and offer services like the following:
  • Organize winterizing of the house
  • Organize cutting the grass
  • Advise on and if necessary arrange security
  • Forward mail
  • Answer simple questions like yes, your electricity meter has been read or no, the electricity company is still estimating your consumption
I am convinced that this would be a nice little long-term business for the right person. It wouldn't be entirely seasonal.

Sadly, too many people aren't interested in a little long-term business – they want a very big short-term business.
Watchpost is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd 2018, 12:57 pm
  #35  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 11
The Developer is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
I am sure you know the old adage "Never invest (gamble) more than you can afford to lose'!

As regards the scheme you mention you said 15-20 mins by underground. Did you mean underground (as in Metro) or suburban train (HEV), could make a difference in terms of the suitability of location. Any way, as you say, that sounds like an ambitious project, with considerable risk!

I don't know if this is valid but I have a hunch that you might consider renovating houses within the city. For example I live in District 2 in Buda and if I were to walk around for an hour or 2 I reckon I could identify several houses that need renovation & / or conversion that you might acquire at a reasonable price.

Having said that I am sure your Hungarian associate knows more about this than I do.

Final note, as already suggested, don't count on the housing boom continuing, I have a feeling you might have missed the boat on this one.
Not sure what’s the difference between Metro and HEV but apparently that land my associate proposed me just sold. So yeah, what I had in mind was to test the market without taking too much risk is to buy foreclosures, renovate them a little and sell. But my associate says that’s not a very easy process in Hungary and may take as much as over 6 months. Besides, foreclosures aren’t much of a bargain to begin with, he claims.

So let’s see how it goes. I don’t wanna solely rely on my associate. Do you have any experience with foreclosures in Budapest? Because if buying off auctions isn’t the way to go, then the the other option is building the structure from scratch which I think is considerably more risk. More than I can handle at this point.
The Developer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd 2018, 2:29 pm
  #36  
it's not true!
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 2,862
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by The Developer View Post
Not sure what’s the difference between Metro and HEV but apparently that land my associate proposed me just sold. So yeah, what I had in mind was to test the market without taking too much risk is to buy foreclosures, renovate them a little and sell. But my associate says that’s not a very easy process in Hungary and may take as much as over 6 months. Besides, foreclosures aren’t much of a bargain to begin with, he claims.

So let’s see how it goes. I don’t wanna solely rely on my associate. Do you have any experience with foreclosures in Budapest? Because if buying off auctions isn’t the way to go, then the the other option is building the structure from scratch which I think is considerably more risk. More than I can handle at this point.
Sorry, can't help you there!
Expatrick is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 2nd 2018, 4:47 pm
  #37  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 899
FenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really niceFenTiger is just really nice
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by cathyg View Post
IMHO I think there are business opportunities here but it is so difficult for foreigners/expats to start a business here. Not just the bureaucracy but a general feeling that Hungarians don’t welcome incomers starting new businesses.
I think we will all have thought of opportunities for example I often say to my Hungarian friends that someone needs to start a good dog panzio around where we live. At the moment we travel one hour to a brilliant dog kennel which I know is very successful. Also we need a decent sorozo/family restaurant in our village which is growing very quickly. And then every year when we go to the Strand we think oh wouldn’t it be good if there was a stall selling this or that.
I just don’t think that this country encourages small entrepreneurs but I am hopeful it will change gradually.
As To the OP I would say tread very carefully particularly if you don’t have good professional contacts in BP that know the right people.
Restaurants - there was for years a very good restaurant in the village where my in-laws live but it closed a few years ago because they couldn't attract the right staff, especially a chef. We had our Hungarian wedding reception there and the food was top notch. The food was on a par with our UK wedding reception but a hell of a lot cheaper for the same numbers of people. It had alot of artefacts all around, some old radios. I loved it so am gutted it closed. The restaurant was also a lifeline for elderly people who wanted something fancy but getting the ingredients was too much effort. Those meals were also delivered.

I know for a fact Hungarians love anything British ... I see lots of clothing made in Hungary with English wording printed (but to be honest sometimes the meaning has been lost in translation).
FenTiger is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2018, 7:56 pm
  #38  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,052
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Stop press news for the Hungarian housing market !!!

Item on tonights news - From last years statistics - the Hungarian population has now stopped falling !

We now just have to wait for the property market inflation to start due to increased demand across the nation

From another view point - how many think that the governments family centered attitudes (grants etc) influenced this cessation in the population decline
Peter_in_Hungary is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:00 pm
  #39  
it's not true!
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 2,862
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary View Post
Stop press news for the Hungarian housing market !!!

Item on tonights news - From last years statistics - the Hungarian population has now stopped falling !

We now just have to wait for the property market inflation to start due to increased demand across the nation

From another view point - how many think that the governments family centered attitudes (grants etc) influenced this cessation in the population decline
Good news - & yes.
Expatrick is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2018, 8:13 pm
  #40  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2015
Location: Near the Black Forest and near the Balaton
Posts: 514
wolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nicewolfi is just really nice
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Peter, are you sure?
From the data I've seen maybe the decline slowed a bit, in the first month of 2017 it was larger however - but in any case the number of deaths was significantly higher than the number of births.
https://dailynewshungary.com/hungary...e-accelerates/
And quite a few people left the country for good.
wolfi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2018, 9:48 pm
  #41  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,052
Peter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond reputePeter_in_Hungary has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by wolfi View Post
Peter, are you sure?
I'm only quoting the Hungarian evening news
Peter_in_Hungary is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5th 2018, 8:01 am
  #42  
BE Enthusiast
 
duztee's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Nagykoros, Hungary
Posts: 599
duztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to all
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

There are a multitude of reasons for this all too complex for my simple mind.

But the fact that the population has ceased to decline is still a long way from the kind of increase needed to fuel a housing boom considering the number of vacant properties which are still around, Budapest as always in such topics may be the exception. (since that was the area the OP asked about)
duztee is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5th 2018, 8:04 am
  #43  
it's not true!
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 2,862
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Originally Posted by duztee View Post
There are a multitude of reasons for this all too complex for my simple mind.

But the fact that the population has ceased to decline is still a long way from the kind of increase needed to fuel a housing boom considering the number of vacant properties which are still around, Budapest as always in such topics may be the exception. (since that was the area the OP asked about)
Well, we are exceptional!
Expatrick is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5th 2018, 8:45 am
  #44  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 283
Watchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond reputeWatchpost has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

As Dutzee says there are a number of factors.

The death rate vs. the birth rate is just one factor, and even that is influenced not only by the number of children being born per head of existing population, but also by changes in life expectancy. I would expect life expectancy in Hungary actually to increase in the medium term before levelling out.

Other significant factors include rural flight, cross-border migration, and occupancy per head of population. These are also complex factors in their own right.

The underlying trend of rural flight will almost certainly continue, but greater wealth could result in people being willing to commute longer distances from rural areas as they do for example in the UK, and in greater demand for holiday/weekend homes. That's by no means certain though; in Germany for example, the current trend is for migration into the city centres, where the services are.

Likewise, greater wealth and smaller family units (the latter due partly to social trends, partly to longer life expectancy) could result in more accommodation being occupied per head of population, again following the trend in western Europe.

Even this is just scratching the surface of the factors influencing the housing market.
Watchpost is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6th 2018, 9:17 am
  #45  
BE Enthusiast
 
duztee's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Nagykoros, Hungary
Posts: 599
duztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to allduztee is a name known to all
Default Re: Real Estate Development near Budapest. Please advise.

Since this thread is rattling along so well I was wondering if any brave souls want to stick their necks out with suggestions for business investment opportunities.

As I have already stated I know nothing of such things, my only investment in Hungary was because it met my retirement needs.
But as I have been driving around this thread has been on my mind and I have been looking around to try to identify possibilities, without much success.

Definitely NOT another cake shop!
A friend of the family has just converted his pub to one, despite the fact that there are already two others within a 100 metres. The whole town is the same with dozens of cake shops.
I asked why he didn't convert to a cafe of which there is only one other, he said the regulations for preparing and serving hot food were just to formidable to consider it an option.
One thing that seems to be missing here which most of us might have appreciated at one time or other is a building company.
Every time I have undertaken any building work I have had to contact and contract each trade separately and then have the nightmare of coordinating their work.
So much easier in the UK when you can just call a company and tell them what you want then sit back and watch the work progress.
But I am guessing the reason for the lack of such businesses is the cost of maintaining the staff when there is little work. Since every time I required someone in the building trade they were always available within a day or two.

So I am not being much help to potential investors in Hungary!
duztee is offline  
Reply With Quote

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement