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Question about a motorcycle for our son.

Question about a motorcycle for our son.

Old Nov 4th 2020, 8:57 am
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Default Question about a motorcycle for our son.

My son wants to purchase a Derbi Senda 49cc motorcycle. One of his new friends has this bike for sale and used a term okmanyok nelkul which seems to mean the machine has no paper work. I am guessing that means the registration papers. On these small machines what is required besides insurance to legally operate them on the road? Is it required to have paperwork for the machine ? Would it be possible to get this paperwork? Should I tell my kid to buy a different machine with the papers? I don't want him to throw away his money for something he cannot use on the road.
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Old Nov 4th 2020, 3:50 pm
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

In Hungary bikes of less than 50cc do not have number plates or require MOTs. To use them on the road they must have insurance (bike identified by the serial No.) and the driver must have a licence for that class, crash hats must be worn and of course the bike must be road worthy. So in this case the term okmanyok nelkul I would take to mean it does not need paperwork rather than doesn't have any. Does your son's friend use the bike on the road now?
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Old Nov 4th 2020, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

The kid does drive it on the road to school and a job. The story has taken a turn though. Now, my son tells me that the bike has a 70cc piston and cylinder kit. Come to find out the friend of my son does not yet have a license tag or driving license for this machine. So, I think I am going to tell my son to purchase a different machine. I don't really think that their is that big of a difference between 49cc and 70cc in power but it does not matter what I think. It matters about what the Hungarian Rendorszeg think. Apparently in Hungary, scooter tuning can be an offense. Oh well.. My boy has ridden different dirt bikes that belong to me with crazy stupid power so he can handle the power but no matter about all that. He needs to obey the local laws.
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Old Nov 5th 2020, 5:49 am
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

I'd avoid that modified moped like the plague! It won't be a good start to his two wheel experience in Hungary to get pulled over by the rendorseg and they find out the moped doesn't comply with Hungarian regulations. You will have to tell your son to tell his friend you won't let him buy it so there's no blot on their friendship if you know what I mean.
I don't have a moped myself so feel I'm probably not the right person to give advice. My only defence is I passed a RAC moped test in snowy conditions in the UK when 16 years old!
I have just moved here too although been visiting since 2002/3.
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Old Nov 5th 2020, 8:51 am
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

FenTiger, I agree the parents should tell the kid selling the bike that their son cannot buy it because its without papers and also been modified. They should be very firm with their son make sure that they warn their boy about the illegality of scooter tuning here in Hungary.by under aged inexperienced riders.
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Old Nov 5th 2020, 2:07 pm
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

By my understanding a 49cc Derbi Senda (unmodified) would be a Class AM vehicle. According to this site, in Hungary Class AM vehicles can be ridden by anyone aged over 14, even without a license:

fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2017/mapping-minimum-age-requirements/drive-moped

As Peter says, they don't have number plates or require MOTs and are not licensed in the normal way; there is therefore no log book. I don't know what the usual arrangements are in Hungary, but if you want to be on the safe side, buy a vehicle with a European Certificate of Conformity (CoC) with the vehicle's identification number (VIN) on it.

Illegal tuning of these vehicles is rife across Europe. In fact it's claimed that even in Germany, illegally tuned 50cc two-wheelers vastly outnumber those that are legal! I certainly don't condone or recommend illegal tuning, but it's worth bearing in mind that Ricky's son will be under a lot of peer pressure. The Chinese are very good at responding to market demand - they even make 70cc cylinders with "50cc" cast on the cylinder block...

Class AM vehicles are normally limited to 45 km/h. A well-tuned 50cc machine might well do 70 km/h or more; with a 70cc cylinder more still. Remember, this is on a vehicle that never sees a testing station, with brakes and suspension only rated for 45 km/h, potentially being ridden by a 14-year-old with no training and who has never taken a test.

If Ricky's son is old enough, it might be worthwhile considering him doing the relevant training and getting a proper motorcycle license (i.e. for 125cc or higher).
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Old Nov 5th 2020, 7:14 pm
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

Originally Posted by Watchpost
By my understanding a 49cc Derbi Senda (unmodified) would be a Class AM vehicle. According to this site, in Hungary Class AM vehicles can be ridden by anyone aged over 14, even without a license:

fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2017/mapping-minimum-age-requirements/drive-moped

As Peter says, they don't have number plates or require MOTs and are not licensed in the normal way; there is therefore no log book. I don't know what the usual arrangements are in Hungary, but if you want to be on the safe side, buy a vehicle with a European Certificate of Conformity (CoC) with the vehicle's identification number (VIN) on it.

Illegal tuning of these vehicles is rife across Europe. In fact it's claimed that even in Germany, illegally tuned 50cc two-wheelers vastly outnumber those that are legal! I certainly don't condone or recommend illegal tuning, but it's worth bearing in mind that Ricky's son will be under a lot of peer pressure. The Chinese are very good at responding to market demand - they even make 70cc cylinders with "50cc" cast on the cylinder block...

Class AM vehicles are normally limited to 45 km/h. A well-tuned 50cc machine might well do 70 km/h or more; with a 70cc cylinder more still. Remember, this is on a vehicle that never sees a testing station, with brakes and suspension only rated for 45 km/h, potentially being ridden by a 14-year-old with no training and who has never taken a test.

If Ricky's son is old enough, it might be worthwhile considering him doing the relevant training and getting a proper motorcycle license (i.e. for 125cc or higher).
Any vehicle sold for road use will have a CoC otherwise it could not be sold. And if a bike is sold for off road use only then there will be a road use variant that will have a CoC that will differ in detail only from the off road type. (exception being bikes for 5 year olds)

Correct - Illegal tuning of these vehicles is rife across Europe ! however it is not the tuning that makes them dangerous but the way they are used. Very few vehicles cause accidents - accidents are usually caused by people.

"with brakes and suspension only rated for 45 km/h", - I disagree with this bit. Bikes today are built with the same frames having different size engine options for various markets and most will have the same frame with an option for a pillion passenger depending upon the local regulations so uprating from 50cc to 70cc or even higher would not generally be a problem and suspension and brakes are designed for the extra weight of a pillion passenger.
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Old Nov 6th 2020, 5:05 am
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

Originally Posted by Watchpost
By my understanding a 49cc Derbi Senda (unmodified) would be a Class AM vehicle. According to this site, in Hungary Class AM vehicles can be ridden by anyone aged over 14, even without a license:

fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2017/mapping-minimum-age-requirements/drive-moped

As Peter says, they don't have number plates or require MOTs and are not licensed in the normal way; there is therefore no log book. I don't know what the usual arrangements are in Hungary, but if you want to be on the safe side, buy a vehicle with a European Certificate of Conformity (CoC) with the vehicle's identification number (VIN) on it.

Illegal tuning of these vehicles is rife across Europe. In fact it's claimed that even in Germany, illegally tuned 50cc two-wheelers vastly outnumber those that are legal! I certainly don't condone or recommend illegal tuning, but it's worth bearing in mind that Ricky's son will be under a lot of peer pressure. The Chinese are very good at responding to market demand - they even make 70cc cylinders with "50cc" cast on the cylinder block...

Class AM vehicles are normally limited to 45 km/h. A well-tuned 50cc machine might well do 70 km/h or more; with a 70cc cylinder more still. Remember, this is on a vehicle that never sees a testing station, with brakes and suspension only rated for 45 km/h, potentially being ridden by a 14-year-old with no training and who has never taken a test.

If Ricky's son is old enough, it might be worthwhile considering him doing the relevant training and getting a proper motorcycle license (i.e. for 125cc or higher).

My son will be 15 in February of next year. I have decided to get him a new Derbi Senda or Aprilia RX 50 for Christmas. I told him he could not buy his friends bike because it has been modified and also told his friend.

eventually he will take the training to ride a bigger machine.
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Old Nov 6th 2020, 4:52 pm
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

Originally Posted by Watchpost
By my understanding a 49cc Derbi Senda (unmodified) would be a Class AM vehicle. According to this site, in Hungary Class AM vehicles can be ridden by anyone aged over 14, even without a license:.
In Hungary AM category (mopeds) need a licence which will involve a theory test on the highway code (Hungary's version of course) and a practical test. The theory test requires tuition first which can be done on line (theory tuition and test I believe are available in English) and the practical test requires a minimum number of tuition hours before the test can be taken.
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Old Nov 6th 2020, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: Question about a motorcycle for our son.

Originally Posted by Peter_in_Hungary
In Hungary AM category (mopeds) need a licence which will involve a theory test on the highway code (Hungary's version of course) and a practical test. The theory test requires tuition first which can be done on line (theory tuition and test I believe are available in English) and the practical test requires a minimum number of tuition hours before the test can be taken.
So: does Rocket junior have this license?
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