Nameless and Faceless
 

I want to live in Goa, India. Why won't they let us? My self and my husband spend ex amount rupees a week, plus so do many more expats We bring in a substantial amount of foreign currency into the local economy. We have retired and want to live in Goa all year round we cost the Goan Government nothing, we pay for everything. even when if we have to pay far more for food and everything else we buy than a Goan. WE ARE SEEN BUT NOT HEARD, here at all, and we never ask questions to what is going on, in case they deport us because they can. So let us The British expats know your feelings on how we are being treated, they don't treat there animals very well, but at this moment in time I think they are better off than us. We have got a two year tourist visa, so we now have to leave Goa every 180 days, so you can imagine what the cost of that is twice a year, and there is only cheap flights for Indians not FNs

At least we can all have our say, to what is happening in Goa, because it is only happening in Goa. I don't believe it's happening anywhere else in India. Well at least they can't take our computers away, they will have to find us first. :curse::curse::curse:





Regards

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Wen,

I sort of see where your coming from but..........

Indias visa rules are actually very relaxed compared with most other countries........many of which only allow 30 day tourist visas.
Watch and see how Britain is tightening up its visa and immigration rules including non eec foreigners having to pass a GCSE English exam........how would we cope if we had to pass a Hindi exam?:eek:

Regards,
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Remy

With great difficulty reguarding the Hindi, I know a little. But the trouble with Goa is no one knows the rules. as you no up to this year, there was no problem getting a yearx visa, and now they are stopping postal services from all of the main Indian Embassy's. So what next?:curse:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Wen,

Totally agree with everything you say - although some wont. I've been shot down before by saying tourists put a great deal of money into the Goan economy - I get told about the rich Indians etc. etc. but you and I know they don't put as much into the economy as FN. Neither do they treat the Goans with respect.

Did you read the article I put on Press thread "Ensuring Sustainability of Goan's Tourism" - if the goan politicians carry on they will not have tourists, they will go elsewhere.

Only greed rules in Goa.

What can we do - we can't demonstrate, or we will be in Fort Aguada, no 'noffi :curse: and no visa's?

Have you actually bought?

Let's hope our new member Guatam can guide is with his thoughts.

Regards

Noni

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Noni
I rent now, because of the visa situation, we can't demonstrate, but we can say what we think on sites like this, reguarding the thread I haven't but I will.:rofl:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Wen,

To lighten the workload they have outsourced their visa applications to travel agencies around the country and in fairness they posted the change on their website. They have also increased the number of visa surgeries around the UK. I agree this is a bit annoying but i dont think they have done this to annoy us but rather out of necessity.

The x-visa(1 year) has now a 180 day max stay stamp on it, probably because of the amount of FNs trying to use it to obtain residency and purchase property without proving 'intention to stay' or really wanting to. The problem is most of these FNs (myself included) have a place in Goa where they spend a couple of months a year and then return home to their resident country. The Indian government arnt going to give these FNs full residential status and rights for being part timers.

Most property in Goa is being bought now by out of state middle class Indians who are gaining an increasingly high dissposable income and are willing to invest it in property. Basically they dont need us or our money.
They have the fastest growing economy in the world with the fastest rising middle class population in the world and we are way down there in their list of people to please.

Kind Regards,
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Yes I agree with some of what you say, but it's all at an extra charge, which puts quite a lot of money on top of your holiday especially a family of four. I believe the postal visa's aren't closed to Indian Nationals in Britain. I didn't want to be a part timer, I was forced into that by the Goverment, they took my yearx away and gave me a tourist visa, like they have done with a lot of FNs:)

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Oh my dearest,

Greed rules the world!

The thing is in India you have a population of over a billion people many of who are poor and many who are also literally starving to death......such circumstances breeds corruption and India is not alone in this.

OMG look at Africa (Sudan) and what that monster is doing in Darfur.

I have said this before but our plight of trying to obtain 'citizenship' in India is minuscule compared with Indias real problems. We cant buy there and then dictate our terms to them and expect them to compromise every time......im afraid it wont happen.
I also feel that if we rock the boat too much the door will close even further especially with what is happening between Britain and India at the moment regarding visas and immigration.

What can we really offer Goa that will make them change their mind?
apart from more consumption of Kingfisher, more taxis and rickshaws, higher demand for narcotics (including viagra etc) and an increase in people trafficing to satisfy the lustful demands of FNs. Of course this is not us all.......but its happening......and many FNs have been caught red handed and indeed deported for their involvement in crime.

So if they dont really need our money or our lifestyle then what can we contribute to the tiny state of Goa to make them change their mind?

:wub:
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Yes Wen,
x-visas have been restricted to 1 year with max stay 180 days for the reasons i have already given.
All UK Indians have to also apply through the outsourcing agencies unless they hold a valid PIO/OCI Card or Indian Passport.;)

Regards,
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi All,
So many points to discuss, so many questions, so many problems.
One can only speak from a personal view, but I do feel that the majority of FNs who want to live in Goa all year do contribute to the Goan society and economy, they are not tourists, they want to be "Goan" but if they actually become Indian they lose their UK pensions and other rights that they have paid for over the years.
No one appears to be asking for a return to colonial attitudes, they would just like the opportunity to fit into the village, town etc and live their own lives in a lawful way. Reminds me of the 60s/70s in England when Asians who had been thrown out of Uganda etc started to move in, all the attitudes of the indigenous population and the immigrants are mirrored in the current situation in Goa.
I don't have answers to these problems at least none that I would post on this site.
Maybe when we all get together would be a time to make suggestions as to what may be feasible.
Hope to see you soon
Tony P

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Wen,

It is lovely to have a rant, you feel so much better. Take it out on the keyboard. As you all can see I have not been sleeping much lately, and come and play on the 'puter, in the early hours. I think I got all my anger :curse:out when Douglas was around.

Noni

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Tony
I realy no theres nothing can be done, theres a lot of FNs here just want a quiet life, they havn't come to work or do anything illegal, just have a nice life, and it looked like it was going to happen, then s:curse:h:curse:i:curse:t happened:curse:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

:wub: Remy

Now I know what to buy your for Christmas "Viagra".:rofl:

FN's who resort to crime should be deported immediately, as should the foreign criminals in our country - but what do we do - keep them here, feed, house, cloth, eductate, give them money. Will we get free medical/hospital treatment out there - no way.

Certain fractions of the ethnic minority in this country dictate terms, we are too lenient.

All Wen wants, like the rest of us is to live in Goa in peace, none of us are asking for them to finance us.

If as being said, we cannot, or should not have bought in Goa, why are the developers/advocates/estate agents/registras not being prosecuted for selling to us, and registering our deeds - to me it seems all onesided.

As far as we were concerned when we bought, we were allowed to, we had the right visa, stayed in India the required time, remitted the finances through the banking system etc. etc. So whatever any of you say, from day one the ball goes back to the top of the chain.

No we cannot demonstrate, and we would be foolish to do so, but we can
have a good rant.

There that's better :blink: :o :sneaky:

noni

p.s. have now taken cover under the computer table.

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Here Here Noni
Very well wrote, and obviously, they are still saying you can buy in Goa and we won't change that neither. In effect I don't want to change anything, I love my life, I just want to know how people feel about this whole damned mess, because like you said nearly everyone that has bought thought they had the right to buy:blink:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Tony,

Let me take on the roll of an Indian Government tourist official for this post.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Wanting to be Goan dosnt give you the right to be Goan.
Like you say many people dont want to give up their UK status,pension rights etc etc.

But you cant serve two masters........and what is the real differance between a tourist who stays for two weeks and one who stays for a year?

The one who stays for two weeks is more likely to be a frequent visitor and be a higher spender than the long term one. A long termer knows how to budget and make their money stretch. They 'eat in' more and shop at supermarkets. They dont rely on puplic transport to the same degree as many have their own bikes and cars. They rent accomodation or 'purchase' and dont use 4 or 5 star hotels. They dont go on official government guided tours. They let their families and friends use 'their' accomodation which dosent benefit the hotel tourist sector.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically they dont want longtermers which is sad for us. I like most of you want to be a longtermer in Goa but because i want it doesnt mean it'll happen. All countries have some sort of visa/right to abode restrictions.......India is not an exception and a lot of countries including the UK change and ammend these rules regularly again India is no exception.

Short term/ high spenders is what they really want........hence all these floating casinos now appearing. They want this to be the new mecca and us hippie, budget buyers simply arnt included in their plans.:frown:

Regards,
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

and here lies the problem.

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

time for noffi then an early nite see you tomorrow guys and gals:thumbsup:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

:rofl::rofl: Hi Mr. Remy-Douglas,

This is just like old times, lets have a good argument.

Like Wen we don't want to change anything, just be left alone to enjoy or retirement, we've all worked bloody hard to get this far.

When being asked would we like a taxi, come into my shop, come to my resturant, my beach shack, hassled on the beach, what should we all be saying, sorry you don't want us here, so money staying in our pocket, I don't think so.

There has got to be give and take - not take, take, take. :blink:

Why should we give up our pension rights, we have bloody well paid for them long enough.

Bet you are having a go at me :wub: Remy, can see my email advisor jumping up and down. :wub: Noni

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Oh Noni,

A big percentage also keep our NHS going and they pay their taxes and contribute to our society. I dont believe in making any differance in people because they look or sound differant or dont agree with my Christian views.

There are rats and prats in every race & creed and the Uk like India is without exception.
I know most of us want to live in Goa in peace but try and look at it from their perspective and thats before you even think about the colonial/raj aspect of things.

I think the best we can hope for is that the rules arnt further tightened and that they wont exclude those on lease/sale agreements or then we will really be in trouble.:blink:

:wub:
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

BUT THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IF THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SELL TO US IN THE BEGINNING.
The buck should stop with the Goans, and have they stopped them selling to FN's. NO

:blink:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh i love you so.

Noni, you and i want the same thing but what im saying is look at it from their perspective as its their country and not ours.
Their country, their rules and are they going to change things for us ex-pat wannabes?

:wub:
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

I didn't mean because of colour or creed, I am just saying that we treat people differently in this country. Those working in the NHS come here because of our pay and conditions, and we would be poorer without them.

:wub: Noni

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Sweetie,

Bollox - Their country, their rules, let them set their rules out and stick to them. :wub: :wub:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

I like this, Wen has got us all fired up and bloody well gone to bed!!!

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Ehhh Noni,

Remember FEMA?

How could they stop tourists from handing over money to scrupulous property developers? Cut their arms off?

They are only investigating this now and they still dont know how many tourists have breached FEMA by purchasing but it is us that have broke the law and breached FEMA not them. Dont forget, ignorance is no defence.

Most property developers havent broke any law because when it comes down to it many tourists dont own property:ohmy: just an expensive rental agreement.....the developer actually owns the property. I know Noni your case is differant than most but many out there only think they own property in Goa.:eek:

Its up to the purchaser to do his/her homework before buying anywhere abroad........and no government will do this for them. After all its not the Governments money at stake here.

:wub:
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Yes Noni,

I think the rules have always been there but the way they have been enforced over the years has differed greatly and this is a big part of the problem.

:wub:
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

To early for bed.......i think she has hit the noffi.
OMG another one bites the dust.:blink::lol:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

He :rofl: He :rofl:He

Gosh you have learnt well from Douglas and Andy how could I forget FEMA,
I am enjoying this.

How can you say developers have not broken the law! Yes - we now know you cannot purchase etc. etc. but they should be had up for taking money under false pretences. Our Estate Agents/Developers could not sell a property and then say that the developer still owned it. Lets be fair. :sneaky:

:wub: Noni

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

:rofl: Silly she is in India :rofl:

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Wot you mean to tell me you lot go to bed around midnight in Goa?
Im only cranking up at this time.:huh::D;)

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Totally agree with Noni - we have paid for our pensions it is our right.

Love the banter - We know Noni :sneaky: the last thing she is is racist, her home in UK and India is open to everybody. ;)

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Noni/All,

Hi Noni,
I think they havent broken the law because they havent really sold anything except a lease. And thats just like buying a lease for say a shop or commercial premises in this country.
Many people out there only have a sale agreement/ lease and until they actually have the deeds/freehold then they own 'squat diddly'(myself included). People need to read and understand what their signing and buying.

Now i agree that they(developers) in the most are being sneaky as they are not revealing the difficulties in obtaining residency or registering deeds and they are still sending people down the ltd company route.......but as annoying as this is........im not sure if they are technically acting illegal.

Over here in NI they would probably end up with a Gangsters Beating:ohmy:
but i think a good solicitor acting for them good show that they have not broken any law.
The Indian Government needs to stick a little amendment/penalty into FEMA against Developers warning them not to 'sell' to non resident FNs and to post and provide updated info on the current legalities regarding property purchase in India.

Would this help.........probably not.
The temptation of sunshine and sand is just too much for many FNs.

:wub:
Remy

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Regarding FN's being deported for "criminal activities", of the 55 or more deported in the past 2 months I will guarantee you 50 are Nigerians. Trouble is, the media rarely differentiate except when it is a European deported for overstaying.

Of two of the European deportations, even though they contested it and lost at the Bombay Bench of the High Court, the word is that they were involved in "irregular dealings" at an orphanage (alledgedly "financial irregularities") - good riddance to bad rubbish and well done to the Goan Authorities if that was the case. Time they threw out that well known travel agent as well ( Links if you want them), but the old bugger obviously has political protection and I don't doubt his activities were politically sanctioned.

I can also personally confirm that the cocaine trade in Goa is almost entirely organiised and run by Nigerians, many of whom are already on criminal charges, "attending school", "playing football" or simply overstaying. European involvement in distribution is minimal, though Europeans (and Goans/Indians) are the primary consumers.

I know more young Goans who have a serious cocaine problem than any Europeans, who seem able to use most drugs on a recreational and fairly controlled basis (with a few notable exceptions).

The charas (hash) trade is wholesaled by the Kashmiris who bring it into the State and Goans are almost entirely the distribution network.There are a few independant players as well.

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Remy
I agree with you, the problem is that we have all been educated by years of immigration and laws against discrimination, we have been taught that everybody has rights and should be treated in the same way.
It is difficult to change these attitudes just because one is in a foreign country and therefore it sits uncomfortably in the mind when people smile and then charge you more because you are different, tell you that you aren't wanted because you are different.
People see foreigners come to the UK and apparently settle, buy property, set up any business they desire, without hindrance from the government or bribes to officials. So when Brits move abroad they automatically feel that they should be treated in a similar manner.
YES, I know this is very simplistic but I would bet that a lot of FNs can empathise with this.
Regards
Tony P

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Remy
You are right, a long term visitor pays money into the system in a steady flow, it is over a long period and gets put into different areas rather than just beach shacks and restaurants, such as property rental fees, advocates fees, council tax, water, electricity, vehicle rental fees, food.
Yes they do let their family and friends stay with them, but those visitors will spend money that wouldn't have gone to Goa if Grandma/Grandpa had retired to Spain or Portugal.
I don't have any real answers, I wish I did.
Regards
Tony

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Tony,

Thanks! I feel very strongly as you can see about this subject. If I go to a stall in Panjim and get "diddled" once, they will never see me again. (that is of course, if I realise)

There will be a row at the Christmas Bash if that Remy "diddles" my bottle of 'noffi when I am not looking.

Are you enjoying your retirement?

Noni

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

I was in a black cab yesterday and the driver tells me that the unlicenced "private hire" cabs don't get pulled in for a 6 monthly vehicle/ driver background checks, etc. Many are being driven by the influx of Eastern European immigrants who do not speak English or know their way around the city so they have a Council paid for interpreter (as well as Sat Nav). Rapes of young inebreiated women are on the increase because of differing cultural interpretations of when "No" means "No", and whether intoxication is an invitation to unconsenting intercourse.

Our Local Council have instructed that all references to Christmas or Christianity be removed from all "Seasonal Greetings" cards they send out for 25th. December.

An English boy applied for a job last week in a UK travel agent and was refused because he cannot speak Punjabi. Surely, that is blatant race discrimination under the Race Discrimination Act, or does that only work in one direction?

Our Local Council website has a dedicated Link for Polish speakers which amongst other things lists their entitlement to benefits, even Child Benefit for their children left in their home countries, and they are claiming twice, st home and in the UK for the same benefit, without checks.

UK companies have instructed employees not to eat at their desks during Ramadam in case it offends Muslim colleagues. All food trolleys and vending machines have temporarily been removed in some companies and government organisations.

School children in Clackmannanshire, Scotland are being given day trip tours of the local mosque "to promote a better understanding and tolerance towards Islam". This follows the conviction and jailing of a jihadist based in the area and plotting to kill and mutilate innocent "infidel" lives. The Muslim minority are not being offered a reciprocal opportunity to visit a Christian Church in order to attempt to integrate to British culture and society.

When a "foreigner" in the UK goes to the supermarket checkout with an item priced say at £15, they are not then charged £30 because their skin tone or language might be different.

End of Daily Mail style rant for the moment!

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Remy Just wanted to ask you, when you mention 'citzenship' are you applying for Indian Citzenship? ie Indian passport? - I guess that is one way around the visa problem, especially if you have no intention of leaving! Helene

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Greggs, the UK bakers have installed a special "Muslim toilet" in their new multi million pound baking facility at Cambuslang, Scotland, even though they admit they have no Muslim employees!

I've not noticed any Muslims being too particular about their toilet habits as they go about their ablutions railside as you enter Bombay, so what's the fuss! Political correctness gone mad!

The European Commission have ruled that "tar macadam" (named after its Scottish born creator, John Loudon McAdam; 1756 - 1863), "macadamisation" becoming the worlwide basis for all future road building, be renamed as "concrete asphalt". Their goes another aspect of our historical context and heritage.

Re: Nameless and Faceless
 

Hi Babu,
Last term the local school took my grand daughters class to a Hindi temple and to a local mosque.

I totally agree with your rant especially about benefits -
I spoke yesterday to a young couple (30) who have a severely brain damaged child - you name it he has got it, poor love. Last year a social worker called and said "They had not expected the child to live so long" he was 2.
After fighting the Welsh Assembly for funding they were approved funding until he was 18, another Welsh authority got involved as the foster carer was in the next county, all sorted, then yesterday they were told funding is being withdrawn. And yet we are paying for all the families of those other foreigners who have caused havoc in this country, whilst they are in prison, and they are not exported - fair - no way :curse::curse:

I can get off my soap box now. :curse: