How would you put things right?
Jul 14th 2007, 5:17 am
#76
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Re: How would you put things right?
What the bin men wont take - and they are fussy old we just take to the corporation tip, where it is sorted into different recycling containers. What about pooper scoopers? Do you think the elephant religious guys should carry them? What Tony is saying Mrs. D. if the Goans were only taught in schools about eco friendly things, it would go a long way to tidying up the country. Our grandchildren now shout out of the car windows if they see people throwing rubbish on the road, and all this has come from school. They are not allowed home from school until the school grounds are cleaned by the last class who were last in the playing fields. We think that this is really a good way of teaching the children.
In the local paper this week one person was fine £75 for throwing a fag end on the ground in town, and another £80 for their McDonalds containers.
How is Douglas to-day? Noni
Hi All,
All these points from Tony and Noni are indeed very valid points but...
The kids are now being educated about the environment at schools however its a lot of their parents that need awareness.
Again i think through time these things will indeed be put into practice and a lot of Tonys suggestions will be implemented..........but this will only work like iv said before when the poor have adequate shelter, food on their plate and clothes on their back. They (not all) will not care about the bags of rubbish and electricity sub stations (the poorest dont even have electric) when they dont know were their next bite is coming from.......these environmental problems are far detached from their own.
If things are to improve, poverty must be dealt with FIRST by improving employment for menial workers, replacing slums with adequate shelter(being implemented in Mumbai, although not without its problems), eradicating exploitation of woman and children and providing provisions for the elderly and disabled.
Im afraid until the whole social issue is dealt with first, there will always be environmental problems and i know its not just the poor or un-educated that are offenders but it must start here.
Regards,
Remy
Hi Noni and Remy
Firstly, Noni you are not comparing eggs with eggs. By that I mean your grandchildren are starting their environmental education from a far higher level than Goan children. I am sure that your grandchildren did not need to be taught by the school that it is wrong to litter. That kind of education comes via responsible parenting. The Goan children do not have that benchmark to start from.
As Remy said in time some of the suggestions Tony made will be implemented, but I can’t see it happening in my lifetime and I’m planning to be around for at least another 25 years ( “Insha’Allah”).
Remy, I agree with you when you say that until the social issues are dealt with there will always be an environmental problem, but the Indian government has neither the revenue to provide for the needy, nor the organization skills to put into operation such a plan.
In my opinion, the first step of the thousand step journey for India would be to get rid of the caste system. I know in theory they have, but not in practice. Having done that, the poor will at least have a slim chance of improving their own lot in life.
Mrs D
PS Noni – Douglas is well thanks.
In the local paper this week one person was fine £75 for throwing a fag end on the ground in town, and another £80 for their McDonalds containers.
How is Douglas to-day? Noni
Hi All,
All these points from Tony and Noni are indeed very valid points but...
The kids are now being educated about the environment at schools however its a lot of their parents that need awareness.
Again i think through time these things will indeed be put into practice and a lot of Tonys suggestions will be implemented..........but this will only work like iv said before when the poor have adequate shelter, food on their plate and clothes on their back. They (not all) will not care about the bags of rubbish and electricity sub stations (the poorest dont even have electric) when they dont know were their next bite is coming from.......these environmental problems are far detached from their own.
If things are to improve, poverty must be dealt with FIRST by improving employment for menial workers, replacing slums with adequate shelter(being implemented in Mumbai, although not without its problems), eradicating exploitation of woman and children and providing provisions for the elderly and disabled.
Im afraid until the whole social issue is dealt with first, there will always be environmental problems and i know its not just the poor or un-educated that are offenders but it must start here.
Regards,
Remy
Hi Noni and Remy
Firstly, Noni you are not comparing eggs with eggs. By that I mean your grandchildren are starting their environmental education from a far higher level than Goan children. I am sure that your grandchildren did not need to be taught by the school that it is wrong to litter. That kind of education comes via responsible parenting. The Goan children do not have that benchmark to start from.
As Remy said in time some of the suggestions Tony made will be implemented, but I can’t see it happening in my lifetime and I’m planning to be around for at least another 25 years ( “Insha’Allah”).
Remy, I agree with you when you say that until the social issues are dealt with there will always be an environmental problem, but the Indian government has neither the revenue to provide for the needy, nor the organization skills to put into operation such a plan.
In my opinion, the first step of the thousand step journey for India would be to get rid of the caste system. I know in theory they have, but not in practice. Having done that, the poor will at least have a slim chance of improving their own lot in life.
Mrs D
PS Noni – Douglas is well thanks.
I agree with all you have said here with the exception being Indias Revenue to deal with some of the things we have been talking about.
At the moment they are engaged in a 'space race' trying to put a man on the moon by 2010 although are now admiting it will probably be 2015.
This is costing Billions in revenue and it cracks me up.
They have also tapped into the wealth of NRIs/PIOs of which there are 30million in 130 countries around the world.
25 billion was remitted to India in 2005 from overseas indians and the Indian Government said this is way below its potential.
India is a nuclear power (another point of contention with me), the worlds fastest growing economy and set to become the third most powerful nation in the world by 2020 after USA and China and still there are people in rural villages around India starving to death every year.
You know as hard as i try, i cant get my head around this.
I know they have the financial resources and indeed 'know how' to do more than what their doing and this makes me angry. In so many ways she is making great progress and in other ways she is medieval.
I guess a lot has to do with 'leadership' or lack of it.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Jul 14th 2007, 7:13 am
#78
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi Mrs D,
I agree with all you have said here with the exception being Indias Revenue to deal with some of the things we have been talking about.
At the moment they are engaged in a 'space race' trying to put a man on the moon by 2010 although are now admiting it will probably be 2015.
This is costing Billions in revenue and it cracks me up.
They have also tapped into the wealth of NRIs/PIOs of which there are 30million in 130 countries around the world.
25 billion was remitted to India in 2005 from overseas indians and the Indian Government said this is way below its potential.
India is a nuclear power (another point of contention with me), the worlds fastest growing economy and set to become the third most powerful nation in the world by 2020 after USA and China and still there are people in rural villages around India starving to death every year.
You know as hard as i try, i cant get my head around this.
I know they have the financial resources and indeed 'know how' to do more than what their doing and this makes me angry. In so many ways she is making great progress and in other ways she is medieval.
I guess a lot has to do with 'leadership' or lack of it.
Kind Regards,
Remy
I agree with all you have said here with the exception being Indias Revenue to deal with some of the things we have been talking about.
At the moment they are engaged in a 'space race' trying to put a man on the moon by 2010 although are now admiting it will probably be 2015.
This is costing Billions in revenue and it cracks me up.
They have also tapped into the wealth of NRIs/PIOs of which there are 30million in 130 countries around the world.
25 billion was remitted to India in 2005 from overseas indians and the Indian Government said this is way below its potential.
India is a nuclear power (another point of contention with me), the worlds fastest growing economy and set to become the third most powerful nation in the world by 2020 after USA and China and still there are people in rural villages around India starving to death every year.
You know as hard as i try, i cant get my head around this.
I know they have the financial resources and indeed 'know how' to do more than what their doing and this makes me angry. In so many ways she is making great progress and in other ways she is medieval.
I guess a lot has to do with 'leadership' or lack of it.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Hi All,
A great paper written by Dr Gnana Robinson of the Peace Trust
'Dealing with Poverty in India'
I have just come across this and think it says it all.
http://www.globalministries.org/inde...678&Itemid=136
Highly Recommended Reading.
Regards,
Remy
Jul 14th 2007, 8:21 am
#79
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi Mrs D,
I agree with all you have said here with the exception being Indias Revenue to deal with some of the things we have been talking about.
At the moment they are engaged in a 'space race' trying to put a man on the moon by 2010 although are now admiting it will probably be 2015.
This is costing Billions in revenue and it cracks me up.
They have also tapped into the wealth of NRIs/PIOs of which there are 30million in 130 countries around the world.
25 billion was remitted to India in 2005 from overseas indians and the Indian Government said this is way below its potential.
India is a nuclear power (another point of contention with me), the worlds fastest growing economy and set to become the third most powerful nation in the world by 2020 after USA and China and still there are people in rural villages around India starving to death every year.
You know as hard as i try, i cant get my head around this.
I know they have the financial resources and indeed 'know how' to do more than what their doing and this makes me angry. In so many ways she is making great progress and in other ways she is medieval.
I guess a lot has to do with 'leadership' or lack of it.
Kind Regards,
Remy
I agree with all you have said here with the exception being Indias Revenue to deal with some of the things we have been talking about.
At the moment they are engaged in a 'space race' trying to put a man on the moon by 2010 although are now admiting it will probably be 2015.
This is costing Billions in revenue and it cracks me up.
They have also tapped into the wealth of NRIs/PIOs of which there are 30million in 130 countries around the world.
25 billion was remitted to India in 2005 from overseas indians and the Indian Government said this is way below its potential.
India is a nuclear power (another point of contention with me), the worlds fastest growing economy and set to become the third most powerful nation in the world by 2020 after USA and China and still there are people in rural villages around India starving to death every year.
You know as hard as i try, i cant get my head around this.
I know they have the financial resources and indeed 'know how' to do more than what their doing and this makes me angry. In so many ways she is making great progress and in other ways she is medieval.
I guess a lot has to do with 'leadership' or lack of it.
Kind Regards,
Remy
Space race you say
they can't even move the boat off the beach in Candolim. What chance have they in space!
Jul 14th 2007, 10:52 am
#80
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: How would you put things right?
I kid you not.
Their budget is $280 million dollars per year spread over 8 years totalling $2.2 billion dollars and ISRO currently has a budget of $660 million dollars....and you thought India was a poor country?
The space race is on bigtime as India and China are competing dollar for dollar for a lunar landing.
There are currently over 2million pages about this on Google, heres just a couple:
http://space.newscientist.com/articl...e-mission.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0111/p06s01-wosc.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/2003/03101....6p1w7a9u.html
Regards,
Remy
Last edited by Remy-Ireland; Jul 14th 2007 at 10:55 am.
Jul 14th 2007, 11:39 pm
#81
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Joined: Jun 2007
Location: On the yellow brick road between UK - India
Posts: 406
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi All,
A great paper written by Dr Gnana Robinson of the Peace Trust
'Dealing with Poverty in India'
I have just come across this and think it says it all.
http://www.globalministries.org/inde...678&Itemid=136
Highly Recommended Reading.
Regards,
Remy
A great paper written by Dr Gnana Robinson of the Peace Trust
'Dealing with Poverty in India'
I have just come across this and think it says it all.
http://www.globalministries.org/inde...678&Itemid=136
Highly Recommended Reading.
Regards,
Remy
It is truly shocking to think that considering the ammount of affluence in modern India, there are still people dying of starvation & eating mud and rats (common amongst 'dalits' in Bihar as explained to me by a villager there where they catch them by setting fire to the field rat burrows).
It is appalling but not that surprising that many slum dwellers such as in Mumbai etc are barred from voting as 'illegal people' (so much for India's democracy -also considering how during some elections villagers in some Indian states have at times been 'persuaded' to tick the 'right' box at gun point)!
As the author points out, ''urban poverty is very much the outcome of rural poverty....all the 1st generation slum dwellers in cities are migrant workers from nearby villages.''
I fully agree with most of the author's proposed solutions for combatting the root of poverty in India and it is encouraging as he mentions in his conclusion that some progress/steps in the right direction have been made such as with the passing of the Bill on National rural Employemnt Guarantee passed in 05, although since then many farmers have committed suicide, so clearly alot more work needs to be done, not least in erradicating corruption.
Also i agree with Mrs. D that India will be held back from true progress until the caste system is erradicated or atleast the 'untouchables' are fully intergrated into all spheres of Indian society with equal rights, respect and opportunities as until that time the vast inequities will continue. As Remy pointed out recently, India has already taken many great steps such as assigning a certain number of places each year in eductation and employment to the 'scheduled classes' etc but clearly there is still alot more to be done before the ideals of a trully equal Indian society as envisioned by such great leaders as Gandhi, Nehru and Dr.Ambedkar are fully realised and i personally feel that it will also require a re-eduction of the mind-set of the rich and middle classes.
Ok ramble over & kind regards to All and thanks again Remy for the link.
Jul 15th 2007, 12:04 am
#82
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Posts: 1,685
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi Remy and thanks for the link and i've just skim read the article which was very thought provoking and i agree it is an excellent paper by Dr.Gnana Robinson, since he offers many pragmatic solutions to tackling the root causes of poverty in India.
It is truly shocking to think that considering the ammount of affluence in modern India, there are still people dying of starvation & eating mud and rats (common amongst 'dalits' in Bihar as explained to me by a villager there where they catch them by setting fire to the field rat burrows).
It is appalling but not that surprising that many slum dwellers such as in Mumbai etc are barred from voting as 'illegal people' (so much for India's democracy -also considering how during some elections villagers in some Indian states have at times been 'persuaded' to tick the 'right' box at gun point)!
As the author points out, ''urban poverty is very much the outcome of rural poverty....all the 1st generation slum dwellers in cities are migrant workers from nearby villages.''
I fully agree with most of the author's proposed solutions for combatting the root of poverty in India and it is encouraging as he mentions in his conclusion that some progress/steps in the right direction have been made such as with the passing of the Bill on National rural Employemnt Guarantee passed in 05, although since then many farmers have committed suicide, so clearly alot more work needs to be done, not least in erradicating corruption.
Also i agree with Mrs. D that India will be held back from true progress until the caste system is erradicated or atleast the 'untouchables' are fully intergrated into all spheres of Indian society with equal rights, respect and opportunities as until that time the vast inequities will continue. As Remy pointed out recently, India has already taken many great steps such as assigning a certain number of places each year in eductation and employment to the 'scheduled classes' etc but clearly there is still alot more to be done before the ideals of a trully equal Indian society as envisioned by such great leaders as Gandhi, Nehru and Dr.Ambedkar are fully realised and i personally feel that it will also require a re-eduction of the mind-set of the rich and middle classes.
Ok ramble over & kind regards to All and thanks again Remy for the link.
It is truly shocking to think that considering the ammount of affluence in modern India, there are still people dying of starvation & eating mud and rats (common amongst 'dalits' in Bihar as explained to me by a villager there where they catch them by setting fire to the field rat burrows).
It is appalling but not that surprising that many slum dwellers such as in Mumbai etc are barred from voting as 'illegal people' (so much for India's democracy -also considering how during some elections villagers in some Indian states have at times been 'persuaded' to tick the 'right' box at gun point)!
As the author points out, ''urban poverty is very much the outcome of rural poverty....all the 1st generation slum dwellers in cities are migrant workers from nearby villages.''
I fully agree with most of the author's proposed solutions for combatting the root of poverty in India and it is encouraging as he mentions in his conclusion that some progress/steps in the right direction have been made such as with the passing of the Bill on National rural Employemnt Guarantee passed in 05, although since then many farmers have committed suicide, so clearly alot more work needs to be done, not least in erradicating corruption.
Also i agree with Mrs. D that India will be held back from true progress until the caste system is erradicated or atleast the 'untouchables' are fully intergrated into all spheres of Indian society with equal rights, respect and opportunities as until that time the vast inequities will continue. As Remy pointed out recently, India has already taken many great steps such as assigning a certain number of places each year in eductation and employment to the 'scheduled classes' etc but clearly there is still alot more to be done before the ideals of a trully equal Indian society as envisioned by such great leaders as Gandhi, Nehru and Dr.Ambedkar are fully realised and i personally feel that it will also require a re-eduction of the mind-set of the rich and middle classes.
Ok ramble over & kind regards to All and thanks again Remy for the link.
Glad you liked the article and i also found it very thought provoking.
I totall agree with what you and Mrs D have said concerning caste.
I think its going to take India many years to shake off this shackle and a modern revamp on the Hindu way of thinking is urgently needed.
India definately needs another Dr Ambedkar who i have read recently turned from Hinduism to Buddhism for this very reason.
I bet you know a lot more about this.
Thanks Again and Kind Regards,
Remy
Jul 15th 2007, 5:27 am
#83
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi TDK,
Glad you liked the article and i also found it very thought provoking.
I totall agree with what you and Mrs D have said concerning caste.
I think its going to take India many years to shake off this shackle and a modern revamp on the Hindu way of thinking is urgently needed.
India definately needs another Dr Ambedkar who i have read recently turned from Hinduism to Buddhism for this very reason.
I bet you know a lot more about this.
Thanks Again and Kind Regards,
Remy
Glad you liked the article and i also found it very thought provoking.
I totall agree with what you and Mrs D have said concerning caste.
I think its going to take India many years to shake off this shackle and a modern revamp on the Hindu way of thinking is urgently needed.
India definately needs another Dr Ambedkar who i have read recently turned from Hinduism to Buddhism for this very reason.
I bet you know a lot more about this.
Thanks Again and Kind Regards,
Remy
Jul 15th 2007, 6:39 am
#84
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Joined: Jun 2007
Location: On the yellow brick road between UK - India
Posts: 406
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi TDK,
Glad you liked the article and i also found it very thought provoking.
I totall agree with what you and Mrs D have said concerning caste.
I think its going to take India many years to shake off this shackle and a modern revamp on the Hindu way of thinking is urgently needed.
India definately needs another Dr Ambedkar who i have read recently turned from Hinduism to Buddhism for this very reason.
I bet you know a lot more about this.
Thanks Again and Kind Regards,
Remy
Glad you liked the article and i also found it very thought provoking.
I totall agree with what you and Mrs D have said concerning caste.
I think its going to take India many years to shake off this shackle and a modern revamp on the Hindu way of thinking is urgently needed.
India definately needs another Dr Ambedkar who i have read recently turned from Hinduism to Buddhism for this very reason.
I bet you know a lot more about this.
Thanks Again and Kind Regards,
Remy
Whilst i have a great respect for what he achieved and for the tremendous positive change he brought for the 'Dalits'/Harijans (as Gandhi renamed them), unfortunately though he failed to recognize that the doctrine of Rebirth is indispenseable to Buddhism. It seems that this was due to a number of reasons including the belief by some Hindus that the Buddha was one of the incarnations or Avatars of Vishnu. However,the absorbtion of the Buddha into their pantheon, was probably just a means used by the Hindus to reduce the perceived threat from Buddhism to the Brahmanical supremacy, by claiming him as one of their own when they realised his huge influence.
Its also quite understandable that he rejected the doctrine of reincarnation as in the Hindu system, combined with the doctrine of karma, it was used to legitamize the caste system. However the Buddha's teachings do not in any way support the caste system, but quite the opposite, and in all the Asian countries where Buddhism spread after leaving India, the caste system never emerged out of the Buddhist teachings, proving that it was a strictly Hindu phenomenon (originating i think from the Aryan invaders).
Also Dr.Ambedkar couldn't work out how rebirth could take place with out a soul (as whilst the Buddha taught there is no soul & no creator God, yet he also taught the doctrines of rebirth and karma).However, failing to recognize the Buddha's teaching on a subtle, & changing conciousness, (as opposed to a permanent soul), which carries the karmic 'imprints' from life to life, he threw the baby (the doctrine of rebirth) out with the bath water! So i think that whilst he was truly a great reformer,unfortunately he had an incomplete understanding of Buddhism which may have led to a lack of clear direction amongst many of his followers (even though their lives must have greatly improved thanks to his work).
Heres some interesting links for more info:
http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit...are160207.html
http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/B._R._Ambedkar
http://fwbo.org/articles/peaceful_revolution.html
Anyway i've got to get back to work so All the Best- TDK
Jul 15th 2007, 8:36 am
#85
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Posts: 868
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi Tony,
My God man,
Write a book it sounds like youv done some wonderful things there.
Well Done and i know its frustrating when things in the developing world seem static. I too have been to Africa and would definately agree with what you said. Parts of Africa makes Goa look like 'Disneyland.'
But hi folks, its not all bad in Goa, things are starting to move forward regarding rubbish and the environment.
http://www.goapluses.com/fullstory.a...RT713200765516
Kids and the environment. Read picture on page.
http://www.navhindtimes.com/sections.php?Section=goa
Save Goa in action.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/savegoa...7594442542232/
If any of the above links dont work let me know and ill fix....you know how precise you have to be typing the darn things out.
Regards,
Remy
My God man,
Write a book it sounds like youv done some wonderful things there.
Well Done and i know its frustrating when things in the developing world seem static. I too have been to Africa and would definately agree with what you said. Parts of Africa makes Goa look like 'Disneyland.'
But hi folks, its not all bad in Goa, things are starting to move forward regarding rubbish and the environment.
http://www.goapluses.com/fullstory.a...RT713200765516
Kids and the environment. Read picture on page.
http://www.navhindtimes.com/sections.php?Section=goa
Save Goa in action.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/savegoa...7594442542232/
If any of the above links dont work let me know and ill fix....you know how precise you have to be typing the darn things out.
Regards,
Remy
No I have done nothing wonderful, just worked with some very good people to try and put things right or make things better for people. Things will change in India/Goa, they will do it themselves when the time seems right. Unfortunately the when can be too far in the future for some.
We who want to live there don't have a voice and don't have any right to change things to the way we percieve that they should be, so all we can ever do is suggest to people who do have the right.
See Ya
TP
Jul 15th 2007, 9:06 am
#87
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: How would you put things right?
Hi Remy
No I have done nothing wonderful, just worked with some very good people to try and put things right or make things better for people. Things will change in India/Goa, they will do it themselves when the time seems right. Unfortunately the when can be too far in the future for some.
We who want to live there don't have a voice and don't have any right to change things to the way we percieve that they should be, so all we can ever do is suggest to people who do have the right.
See Ya
TP
No I have done nothing wonderful, just worked with some very good people to try and put things right or make things better for people. Things will change in India/Goa, they will do it themselves when the time seems right. Unfortunately the when can be too far in the future for some.
We who want to live there don't have a voice and don't have any right to change things to the way we percieve that they should be, so all we can ever do is suggest to people who do have the right.
See Ya
TP
Hi Tony,
Your right......we can but try.
Regards,
Remy
