BHC Meeting - Feedback
Jan 23rd 2010, 3:18 am
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
BHC Meeting - Feedback
Hi folks
As promised here is an outline of the meeting with Vicki Treadell yesterday at the Kennilworth Beach Resort. It is a summary only, so if there are any questions, please post and I will do my best to expand.
The meeting had a large turnout - approximately 250 people in attendance. Early in the meeting objection was raised regarding the presence of a Goan woman who was attending to help friends - this woman was asked to leave by Vicky.
It was stated at the meeting the same issues are affecting US citizens and other European citizens, whose Govts are also lobbying the Indian govt. The BHC are in direct contact with these other govts so are aware of the wider picture.
Vicky T brought with her a consulate official from the Delhi BHC - Simon FERRAND - who is working with her at National level on the issues affecting us all - primarily concerning property ownership and the new visa rules. Simon is going to set up an official email address for British individuals to ask questions, which he will then take to the Indian Govt. In the meantime, Moderator Noni will take questions from any member here and pass them on to him, until the email line is established direct.
Simon told the meeting that he regularly reads this site.
Vicky stated that she has so far held two meetings with the CM of Goa and one further meeting with the Chief Secretary. She has also met with Anapam KISHORE who has been assigned the role of contact officer regarding property issues. These same issues have also been raised in Delhi.
No concrete agreements have been made as yet, but both Vicky and Simon are continuing to raise the issues and lobby our cause at both Goa and National level.
Issues being lobbied at the Indian and Goan govts are as follows :
- Approach to ask for an amnesty for property owners in Goa with request for either the right for those already owning to stay or the right for foreigners to sell at todays market value. The emphasis being used here is that the Goan authorities are responsible for this by allowing it to happen in the first place, the fact that buyers did so in the belief that it was lawful and were misadvised by lawyers, agents and govt departments, and that foreigners entered into buying property in good faith. Also emphasis is being placed on the humanitarian grounds where it can be shown that peoples' health and wellbeing is suffering because their situations here.
- Pointing out to the Goan govt the impact on their economy when long term tourists are stopped from coming, which they are failing to recognise in terms of how much long staying British contribute to local economies.
- Raising the fact that the Indian govt has a 'one size fits all' approach to visas and has no administration for those people who want to live, run businesses etc in India, therefore the govt needs to identify different categories of foreigners in India.
On the issue of the 2 month visa rule, Vicky stated that the govt of India has applied this in respect of the Headley case and it is affecting foreigners on a national level. The Indian Govt have assured her that they will be flexible with this and allow tourists in provided they explain circumstances to the immigration officer at the point of arrival in India, then the rule should be wavered where a genuine explanation is offered.
One attendee raised a case where a group of Brits had left Goa for a short holiday in Thailand and when they tried to return on 22/1/10, Indian Airlines refused to let them travel back to Goa due to the 2 month rule, however there were many others who have been allowed in. Vicky said this incident was likely due to confusion since the inception of this rule.
On the issue of Anapam KISHORE - Simon Ferrand (BHC) is in the process of producing a proforma for submission of facts about property owner cases. He has said he is happy to meet individuals and groups on the issue.
[B]FINALLY - Vicky emphasised that it is vital for the British subjects in Goa to HARNESS THEIR COLLECTIVITY and come together to fight these problems. She also said by coming together as one large number then it is vital to open up dialogue with Goan politicians. [/B
Also apparently the Visa on Arrival for Russians has now been stopped.
Vickys replacement will be a man called Peter BECKINGHAM. He and Simon FERRAND will continue to take up these issues.
To sum up it seems there is lots going on behind the scenes on our behalf but no concrete stuff as yet - but these things will always take time I think. But we Britis need to join together and provide the BHC with evidence that they can convert into arguments to bring before the Indian govt. Makes sense me thinks!
Well folks, I think Ive covered everything, and I hope I have put it across in a way where it makes sense - but then again it is Sunday morning !!!!!
Regards to you all
Dread - minute taker !!
x
As promised here is an outline of the meeting with Vicki Treadell yesterday at the Kennilworth Beach Resort. It is a summary only, so if there are any questions, please post and I will do my best to expand.
The meeting had a large turnout - approximately 250 people in attendance. Early in the meeting objection was raised regarding the presence of a Goan woman who was attending to help friends - this woman was asked to leave by Vicky.
It was stated at the meeting the same issues are affecting US citizens and other European citizens, whose Govts are also lobbying the Indian govt. The BHC are in direct contact with these other govts so are aware of the wider picture.
Vicky T brought with her a consulate official from the Delhi BHC - Simon FERRAND - who is working with her at National level on the issues affecting us all - primarily concerning property ownership and the new visa rules. Simon is going to set up an official email address for British individuals to ask questions, which he will then take to the Indian Govt. In the meantime, Moderator Noni will take questions from any member here and pass them on to him, until the email line is established direct.
Simon told the meeting that he regularly reads this site.
Vicky stated that she has so far held two meetings with the CM of Goa and one further meeting with the Chief Secretary. She has also met with Anapam KISHORE who has been assigned the role of contact officer regarding property issues. These same issues have also been raised in Delhi.
No concrete agreements have been made as yet, but both Vicky and Simon are continuing to raise the issues and lobby our cause at both Goa and National level.
Issues being lobbied at the Indian and Goan govts are as follows :
- Approach to ask for an amnesty for property owners in Goa with request for either the right for those already owning to stay or the right for foreigners to sell at todays market value. The emphasis being used here is that the Goan authorities are responsible for this by allowing it to happen in the first place, the fact that buyers did so in the belief that it was lawful and were misadvised by lawyers, agents and govt departments, and that foreigners entered into buying property in good faith. Also emphasis is being placed on the humanitarian grounds where it can be shown that peoples' health and wellbeing is suffering because their situations here.
- Pointing out to the Goan govt the impact on their economy when long term tourists are stopped from coming, which they are failing to recognise in terms of how much long staying British contribute to local economies.
- Raising the fact that the Indian govt has a 'one size fits all' approach to visas and has no administration for those people who want to live, run businesses etc in India, therefore the govt needs to identify different categories of foreigners in India.
On the issue of the 2 month visa rule, Vicky stated that the govt of India has applied this in respect of the Headley case and it is affecting foreigners on a national level. The Indian Govt have assured her that they will be flexible with this and allow tourists in provided they explain circumstances to the immigration officer at the point of arrival in India, then the rule should be wavered where a genuine explanation is offered.
One attendee raised a case where a group of Brits had left Goa for a short holiday in Thailand and when they tried to return on 22/1/10, Indian Airlines refused to let them travel back to Goa due to the 2 month rule, however there were many others who have been allowed in. Vicky said this incident was likely due to confusion since the inception of this rule.
On the issue of Anapam KISHORE - Simon Ferrand (BHC) is in the process of producing a proforma for submission of facts about property owner cases. He has said he is happy to meet individuals and groups on the issue.
[B]FINALLY - Vicky emphasised that it is vital for the British subjects in Goa to HARNESS THEIR COLLECTIVITY and come together to fight these problems. She also said by coming together as one large number then it is vital to open up dialogue with Goan politicians. [/B
Also apparently the Visa on Arrival for Russians has now been stopped.
Vickys replacement will be a man called Peter BECKINGHAM. He and Simon FERRAND will continue to take up these issues.
To sum up it seems there is lots going on behind the scenes on our behalf but no concrete stuff as yet - but these things will always take time I think. But we Britis need to join together and provide the BHC with evidence that they can convert into arguments to bring before the Indian govt. Makes sense me thinks!
Well folks, I think Ive covered everything, and I hope I have put it across in a way where it makes sense - but then again it is Sunday morning !!!!!
Regards to you all
Dread - minute taker !!
x
Jan 23rd 2010, 4:43 am
#2
Lovin' it
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Candolim
Posts: 164
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
It was a good meeting, at least in terms of numbers. However, I think those attending were looking for some clear "Official view" of the new visa guidelines. This was not there.
As far as I am aware the new 2 month rule only applies to Tourist visas (according to the VFS website). Also there is nothing on the website regarding staying more than 90 days. Has anybody seen anything about this for other visas?
Again in my opinion (for what it's worth) once you have been granted the visa to stay "no more than 180 days" then the indian government cannot then force you to leave after 90 days without formally notifying you. It may be that new visas have (or will have) this restriction. Has anybody yet had experience of this?
Jan 23rd 2010, 4:52 am
#3
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Well done Dreadsoc - just logged on to send some feedback only to find you've already done it. Its an excellent & accurate summary.
Only a couple of things I would add:
i) The BHC commented that the large turnout last night was important to them - it validated the importance of the issue and gave them leverage in gaining the support of other government colleagues.
Clearly we all need to give Vikki (and her successor) and Simon our full support. There were some comments last night from the floor that little had been achieved - but we have to be realistic. The BHC does not have the power (nor for that matter does the British Government) to RESOLVE the issues. It can only argue our cause, negotiate, apply pressure etc - and I for one am happy that they are doing so.
ii) We were asked to 'keep our own counsel' - No doubt BHC will advise if they would prefer this thread to be less detailed and the details to be circulated by pm.
Only a couple of things I would add:
i) The BHC commented that the large turnout last night was important to them - it validated the importance of the issue and gave them leverage in gaining the support of other government colleagues.
Clearly we all need to give Vikki (and her successor) and Simon our full support. There were some comments last night from the floor that little had been achieved - but we have to be realistic. The BHC does not have the power (nor for that matter does the British Government) to RESOLVE the issues. It can only argue our cause, negotiate, apply pressure etc - and I for one am happy that they are doing so.
ii) We were asked to 'keep our own counsel' - No doubt BHC will advise if they would prefer this thread to be less detailed and the details to be circulated by pm.
Jan 23rd 2010, 6:19 am
#4
I love apathy!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,248
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Dread,
Thanks for taking the time to presumably "take notes" at the meeting & also for typing up the notes into what appears to be a comprehensive summary afterwards.
Best Wishes
H.
Thanks for taking the time to presumably "take notes" at the meeting & also for typing up the notes into what appears to be a comprehensive summary afterwards.
Best Wishes
H.
Jan 23rd 2010, 8:04 am
#5
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Goa & London
Posts: 444
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Many thanks to Dread & D4ve for providing the feedback on the meeting.
Obviously a lot is happening "behind the scenes", and as they say "Rome wasn't built in a day".
It will be interesting to see what happens when we go to VFS to apply for our new visa on 11th March (2 months after leaving India).
If anyone else is in a similar situation - between visas - and applies earlier - please let us know what we might expect.
Greetings to all
Iain
Obviously a lot is happening "behind the scenes", and as they say "Rome wasn't built in a day".
It will be interesting to see what happens when we go to VFS to apply for our new visa on 11th March (2 months after leaving India).
If anyone else is in a similar situation - between visas - and applies earlier - please let us know what we might expect.
Greetings to all
Iain
Jan 23rd 2010, 10:57 am
#6
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
It was obviously a longer meeting than I thought. I seem to have slept for 24+ hours
It was a good meeting, at least in terms of numbers. However, I think those attending were looking for some clear "Official view" of the new visa guidelines. This was not there.
As far as I am aware the new 2 month rule only applies to Tourist visas (according to the VFS website). Also there is nothing on the website regarding staying more than 90 days. Has anybody seen anything about this for other visas?
Again in my opinion (for what it's worth) once you have been granted the visa to stay "no more than 180 days" then the indian government cannot then force you to leave after 90 days without formally notifying you. It may be that new visas have (or will have) this restriction. Has anybody yet had experience of this?
It was a good meeting, at least in terms of numbers. However, I think those attending were looking for some clear "Official view" of the new visa guidelines. This was not there.
As far as I am aware the new 2 month rule only applies to Tourist visas (according to the VFS website). Also there is nothing on the website regarding staying more than 90 days. Has anybody seen anything about this for other visas?
Again in my opinion (for what it's worth) once you have been granted the visa to stay "no more than 180 days" then the indian government cannot then force you to leave after 90 days without formally notifying you. It may be that new visas have (or will have) this restriction. Has anybody yet had experience of this?
The Consulate staff have a very difficult job dealing with the Indian Authorities as we all know how difficult they make the smallest daily task.
Jan 23rd 2010, 1:21 pm
#7
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 91
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Thank you for the detailed feedback Dread. It is of immense encouragement to us at home to know that the BHC are working hard on our behalf. I am pleased that there was such a large turnout - I was really concerned that there may not have been given the comments on this forum recently. The Indian govt will have to do something !!
Jan 23rd 2010, 1:37 pm
#8
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Irvine, North Ayrshire Scotland
Posts: 725
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Many thanks for all the feedback and all the support in attending the meeting.all of my friends attended the meeting (man said they would'nt) which pleased me, did BHC comment on a further meetin in the near future?
Jan 23rd 2010, 2:53 pm
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Nothing was said about a further meeting, but as Vicky T is leaving and her successor is due to take post, I guess it will be up to the new guy to arrange a further meeting. She did assure us at the meeting that her successor Peter Beckingham will be carrying on with the efforts she has started.
Dread - waiting and seeing !
x
Last edited by dreadsoc; Jan 23rd 2010 at 3:01 pm.
Jan 23rd 2010, 4:13 pm
#10
Account Closed
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Hi folks
As promised here is an outline of the meeting with Vicki Treadell yesterday at the Kennilworth Beach Resort. It is a summary only, so if there are any questions, please post and I will do my best to expand.
The meeting had a large turnout - approximately 250 people in attendance. Early in the meeting objection was raised regarding the presence of a Goan woman who was attending to help friends - this woman was asked to leave by Vicky.
It was stated at the meeting the same issues are affecting US citizens and other European citizens, whose Govts are also lobbying the Indian govt. The BHC are in direct contact with these other govts so are aware of the wider picture.
Vicky T brought with her a consulate official from the Delhi BHC - Simon FERRAND - who is working with her at National level on the issues affecting us all - primarily concerning property ownership and the new visa rules. Simon is going to set up an official email address for British individuals to ask questions, which he will then take to the Indian Govt. In the meantime, Moderator Noni will take questions from any member here and pass them on to him, until the email line is established direct.
Simon told the meeting that he regularly reads this site.
Vicky stated that she has so far held two meetings with the CM of Goa and one further meeting with the Chief Secretary. She has also met with Anapam KISHORE who has been assigned the role of contact officer regarding property issues. These same issues have also been raised in Delhi.
No concrete agreements have been made as yet, but both Vicky and Simon are continuing to raise the issues and lobby our cause at both Goa and National level.
Issues being lobbied at the Indian and Goan govts are as follows :
- Approach to ask for an amnesty for property owners in Goa with request for either the right for those already owning to stay or the right for foreigners to sell at todays market value. The emphasis being used here is that the Goan authorities are responsible for this by allowing it to happen in the first place, the fact that buyers did so in the belief that it was lawful and were misadvised by lawyers, agents and govt departments, and that foreigners entered into buying property in good faith. Also emphasis is being placed on the humanitarian grounds where it can be shown that peoples' health and wellbeing is suffering because their situations here.
- Pointing out to the Goan govt the impact on their economy when long term tourists are stopped from coming, which they are failing to recognise in terms of how much long staying British contribute to local economies.
- Raising the fact that the Indian govt has a 'one size fits all' approach to visas and has no administration for those people who want to live, run businesses etc in India, therefore the govt needs to identify different categories of foreigners in India.
On the issue of the 2 month visa rule, Vicky stated that the govt of India has applied this in respect of the Headley case and it is affecting foreigners on a national level. The Indian Govt have assured her that they will be flexible with this and allow tourists in provided they explain circumstances to the immigration officer at the point of arrival in India, then the rule should be wavered where a genuine explanation is offered.
One attendee raised a case where a group of Brits had left Goa for a short holiday in Thailand and when they tried to return on 22/1/10, Indian Airlines refused to let them travel back to Goa due to the 2 month rule, however there were many others who have been allowed in. Vicky said this incident was likely due to confusion since the inception of this rule.
On the issue of Anapam KISHORE - Simon Ferrand (BHC) is in the process of producing a proforma for submission of facts about property owner cases. He has said he is happy to meet individuals and groups on the issue.
[B]FINALLY - Vicky emphasised that it is vital for the British subjects in Goa to HARNESS THEIR COLLECTIVITY and come together to fight these problems. She also said by coming together as one large number then it is vital to open up dialogue with Goan politicians. [/B
Also apparently the Visa on Arrival for Russians has now been stopped.
Vickys replacement will be a man called Peter BECKINGHAM. He and Simon FERRAND will continue to take up these issues.
To sum up it seems there is lots going on behind the scenes on our behalf but no concrete stuff as yet - but these things will always take time I think. But we Britis need to join together and provide the BHC with evidence that they can convert into arguments to bring before the Indian govt. Makes sense me thinks!
Well folks, I think Ive covered everything, and I hope I have put it across in a way where it makes sense - but then again it is Sunday morning !!!!!
Regards to you all
Dread - minute taker !!
x
As promised here is an outline of the meeting with Vicki Treadell yesterday at the Kennilworth Beach Resort. It is a summary only, so if there are any questions, please post and I will do my best to expand.
The meeting had a large turnout - approximately 250 people in attendance. Early in the meeting objection was raised regarding the presence of a Goan woman who was attending to help friends - this woman was asked to leave by Vicky.
It was stated at the meeting the same issues are affecting US citizens and other European citizens, whose Govts are also lobbying the Indian govt. The BHC are in direct contact with these other govts so are aware of the wider picture.
Vicky T brought with her a consulate official from the Delhi BHC - Simon FERRAND - who is working with her at National level on the issues affecting us all - primarily concerning property ownership and the new visa rules. Simon is going to set up an official email address for British individuals to ask questions, which he will then take to the Indian Govt. In the meantime, Moderator Noni will take questions from any member here and pass them on to him, until the email line is established direct.
Simon told the meeting that he regularly reads this site.
Vicky stated that she has so far held two meetings with the CM of Goa and one further meeting with the Chief Secretary. She has also met with Anapam KISHORE who has been assigned the role of contact officer regarding property issues. These same issues have also been raised in Delhi.
No concrete agreements have been made as yet, but both Vicky and Simon are continuing to raise the issues and lobby our cause at both Goa and National level.
Issues being lobbied at the Indian and Goan govts are as follows :
- Approach to ask for an amnesty for property owners in Goa with request for either the right for those already owning to stay or the right for foreigners to sell at todays market value. The emphasis being used here is that the Goan authorities are responsible for this by allowing it to happen in the first place, the fact that buyers did so in the belief that it was lawful and were misadvised by lawyers, agents and govt departments, and that foreigners entered into buying property in good faith. Also emphasis is being placed on the humanitarian grounds where it can be shown that peoples' health and wellbeing is suffering because their situations here.
- Pointing out to the Goan govt the impact on their economy when long term tourists are stopped from coming, which they are failing to recognise in terms of how much long staying British contribute to local economies.
- Raising the fact that the Indian govt has a 'one size fits all' approach to visas and has no administration for those people who want to live, run businesses etc in India, therefore the govt needs to identify different categories of foreigners in India.
On the issue of the 2 month visa rule, Vicky stated that the govt of India has applied this in respect of the Headley case and it is affecting foreigners on a national level. The Indian Govt have assured her that they will be flexible with this and allow tourists in provided they explain circumstances to the immigration officer at the point of arrival in India, then the rule should be wavered where a genuine explanation is offered.
One attendee raised a case where a group of Brits had left Goa for a short holiday in Thailand and when they tried to return on 22/1/10, Indian Airlines refused to let them travel back to Goa due to the 2 month rule, however there were many others who have been allowed in. Vicky said this incident was likely due to confusion since the inception of this rule.
On the issue of Anapam KISHORE - Simon Ferrand (BHC) is in the process of producing a proforma for submission of facts about property owner cases. He has said he is happy to meet individuals and groups on the issue.
[B]FINALLY - Vicky emphasised that it is vital for the British subjects in Goa to HARNESS THEIR COLLECTIVITY and come together to fight these problems. She also said by coming together as one large number then it is vital to open up dialogue with Goan politicians. [/B
Also apparently the Visa on Arrival for Russians has now been stopped.
Vickys replacement will be a man called Peter BECKINGHAM. He and Simon FERRAND will continue to take up these issues.
To sum up it seems there is lots going on behind the scenes on our behalf but no concrete stuff as yet - but these things will always take time I think. But we Britis need to join together and provide the BHC with evidence that they can convert into arguments to bring before the Indian govt. Makes sense me thinks!
Well folks, I think Ive covered everything, and I hope I have put it across in a way where it makes sense - but then again it is Sunday morning !!!!!
Regards to you all
Dread - minute taker !!
x
It means a lot to the people who unfortunately could not be a the meeting last night and we haven't been left waiting for information.
This all sounds very positive and is moving in the right direction particularly with this bloke Simon in Delhi.
A lot has been done behind the scenes by the sounds of it.So Well done Vicki and thanks to her for this we have never had this sort of help before and I am certainly a happier bunny
GC
Grateful to Dread the minute & p*ss taker 
Jan 23rd 2010, 8:09 pm
#11
I love apathy!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,248
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Was the lead singer of your band, not Jerry Garcia? Did you not launch, via your pals in vermont an icecream flavour called "cherry garcia" ? ? ? ? ? Do you not already have a cult following. . . . . . . . ?
Thanks again
H.
Thanks again
H.
Last edited by hemingway; Jan 23rd 2010 at 8:10 pm. Reason: Bugger! Not Massachusets, but Vermont!
Jan 23rd 2010, 8:36 pm
#12
Account Closed
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,146
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
GC
Still greatful to dread though
Last edited by Goacrazy56; Jan 23rd 2010 at 9:13 pm.
Jan 23rd 2010, 8:55 pm
#13
I love apathy!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,248
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
My thoughts are that J5 will know about Ben, Jerry & "cherry garcia" & the grateful d(r)ead on the way to Vermont innit!
Ilkeston is definitely a Lib Dem battleground - no extreme views there for sure . . . . . . . . ..
H. - looking forward to the minimum price per unit of aclohol, hick, innit. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
Jan 23rd 2010, 9:18 pm
#14
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,478
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
My thoughts are that J5 will know about Ben, Jerry & "cherry garcia" & the grateful d(r)ead on the way to Vermont innit!
Ilkeston is definitely a Lib Dem battleground - no extreme views there for sure . . . . . . . . ..
H. - looking forward to the minimum price per unit of aclohol, hick, innit. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
Ilkeston is definitely a Lib Dem battleground - no extreme views there for sure . . . . . . . . ..
H. - looking forward to the minimum price per unit of aclohol, hick, innit. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?
The Ilkeston bit? Just lurve irony......
Alcohol? Minimum price? Sounds a lot better than maximum price.
Jan 24th 2010, 3:40 am
#15
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 701
Re: BHC Meeting - Feedback
Ms Treadwell's point of 'harnessing collectivity' is one where quick action can begin conveying a Brit presence that is open, friendly and "local" through the formation of a club or association locally. There are many reasons to party and celebrate as Brits together, in Goa, and use such opportunities to invite local Goans as guests, as members do at any social/sports club.