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Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Old Mar 2nd 2021, 7:08 am
  #1  
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Default Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

I have been living in Germany since March 2019 and had a job for six months in Bayern. I then decided that it was in my best interest to study the German language and passed my B1 Integration Course in December 2020.
During this time I have been living with my partner and we have moved across the country and now living in Wiesbaden Hessen.

Currently I am unemployed as an Electronic Engineer and I am still looking for work.

I have a question regarding the Aufenthaltserlaubnis- GB ( residents permit) that I applied for by the Auslaänderbehörde ( foreign authorities office) in Wiesbaden. I recieved an Email in response to my application which states below:German version:
nach Überprüfung Ihrer Unterlagen steht fest, dass die Voraussetzungen für eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis nach dem Austrittsabkommen nicht erfüllt sind.


Bitte teilen Sie mit, aus welchen Gründen sie sich weiterhin im Bundesgebiet aufhalten möchten.

English translation:
After checking your documents, it is clear that the requirements for a residence permit under the Withdrawal Agreement have not been met.

Please inform us why you would like to continue to stay in the federal territory.

I responded to the Email and put the question forward as to why the application was rejected under the Withdral Agreement.

Is this normal process? Has anyone else had this problem?





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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 10:22 am
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

1) Are you a British citizen and/or have any other EU Passport?

2) Did you register as a resident in Germany and when?

3) Did you apply for permanent residence in Germany before 31.12.2020?

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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 11:04 am
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Hi malcom1970, thanks for responding and to answer your questions,

1. Yes I am a Britisch citizen and no I have no other EU status/ passport
2. Yes I registered as a resident everytime I moved throughout the country, first one was in March 2019
3. I applied for the Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB online on the 7 December 2020.

I hope that helps. Are you located in Germany and applying through the same process?
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 12:12 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
Hi malcom1970, thanks for responding and to answer your questions,

1. Yes I am a Britisch citizen and no I have no other EU status/ passport
2. Yes I registered as a resident everytime I moved throughout the country, first one was in March 2019
3. I applied for the Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB online on the 7 December 2020.

I hope that helps. Are you located in Germany and applying through the same process?
Hi, if it were me I'd contact them to ask which Voraussetzungen weren't erfüllt.
All the best!
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

There's a helpful document here:

www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/downloads/EN/themen/constitution/brexit/information-british-residents-after-withdrawel-agreement.pdf

I suggest you read that carefully (I've only scanned it), but as I see it, you haven't acquired a right to a permanent residence permit because you haven't been living in Germany for five years, and you don't (from your information) meet any of the criteria listed in Section 8 under which you could apply for a residence permit.

The authority is asking you to explain what your reason is for remaining in Germany and the onus is on you to do so, not the authority to justify why you can't.
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 4:46 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Thanks for your response. I have sent them exactly what you have suggested, in a polite email.

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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 4:56 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Thanks for the info,

I have read through this very carefully last year and again over the last few weeks. From what I have read and understand, as long as I entered Germany before the 31st Dec 2020, registered correctly, and followed the other necessary steps ie paid into pension, insurance and can prove that you have worked, studied etc then it should not be a problem.
The Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB is not a permanant residence document, this is only valid for 5 years.
You are confusing this with something else.

I was just curious if other people may have had other or similar problems relating to this process/regiistration.
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
From what I have read and understand, as long as I entered Germany before the 31st Dec 2020, registered correctly, and followed the other necessary steps ie paid into pension, insurance and can prove that you have worked, studied etc then it should not be a problem.
Where have you read that?

Again, this is from the government's own guidance document:

• You must also have had the right of free movement on 31 December 2020.

You had the right of free movement if, on that date, you were
• in an employment relationship in Germany,
• seeking work in Germany – although a period of seeking work longer than six months only leads to an entitlement to freedom of movement if there was a reasonable prospect that you would find a job,
• self-employed in Germany (in a trade or freelance profession),
• not pursuing an economic activity in Germany – for example you are a pensioner or student – and had sufficient resources to support yourself, including sickness insurance cover


Which of those four options did you satisfy on 31 December 2020?

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
The Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB is not a permanant residence document, this is only valid for 5 years.
You are confusing this with something else.
I didn't say that the Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB is a permanent residence document. I said "you haven't acquired a right to a permanent residence permit because you haven't been living in Germany for five years".

The reason I said that was because if you had acquired a right to a permanent residence permit, you wouldn't need the Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB. See Page 17 of the guidance document: You can also apply for a certificate attesting to an existing right of permanent residence (see question 2). To do this, you must provide clear evidence to the foreigners authority responsible for you that you have already lived in Germany for five years. Unfortunately, you haven't (acquired the right to permanent residence), so you do (need the Aufenthaltserlaubnis-GB), but it seems you don't qualify for it.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but unfortunately it seems that the official who wrote to you sees it the same way.
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Old Mar 2nd 2021, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Look to me like you possibly applied for the wrong thing or have the wrong impression of it.
In order to apply for (permanent) residence you will have to live/work in Germany for a period of 5 years I think which is standard in most EU countries.
This is very different from registering with the local council whenever you move to a new location. The two are not connected.
Otherwise it will be a temporary permit up until that time.

Take a look here: https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/o...tion-procedure


There is plenty of info on internet.


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Old Mar 5th 2021, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
I have been living in Germany since March 2019 and had a job for six months in Bayern. I then decided that it was in my best interest to study the German language and passed my B1 Integration Course in December 2020.
During this time I have been living with my partner and we have moved across the country and now living in Wiesbaden Hessen.

Currently I am unemployed as an Electronic Engineer and I am still looking for work.

I have a question regarding the Aufenthaltserlaubnis- GB ( residents permit) that I applied for by the Auslaänderbehörde ( foreign authorities office) in Wiesbaden. I recieved an Email in response to my application which states below:German version:
nach Überprüfung Ihrer Unterlagen steht fest, dass die Voraussetzungen für eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis nach dem Austrittsabkommen nicht erfüllt sind.


Bitte teilen Sie mit, aus welchen Gründen sie sich weiterhin im Bundesgebiet aufhalten möchten.

English translation:
After checking your documents, it is clear that the requirements for a residence permit under the Withdrawal Agreement have not been met.

Please inform us why you would like to continue to stay in the federal territory.

I responded to the Email and put the question forward as to why the application was rejected under the Withdral Agreement.

Is this normal process? Has anyone else had this problem?
How are you health insured at the moment and how have you been insured while attending your integration course?
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Old Mar 9th 2021, 2:37 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Thanks again for your advice. Yes, I have looked a bit deeper into my situation as I was in employement, have and continue to seek employement, was a student and have and continue to have insurance cover.

Thats why I thought i fall under the the guidelines in what you sent.
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Old Mar 9th 2021, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by sternchen View Post
How are you health insured at the moment and how have you been insured while attending your integration course?
Yes I am health insured and have been since 2019 all the way through the course and when i was employed.

Im still puzzled and waiting for a response back from the authority.
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Old Mar 10th 2021, 7:45 am
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
Yes I am health insured and have been since 2019 all the way through the course and when i was employed.

Im still puzzled and waiting for a response back from the authority.
Are you registered with the Agentur für Arbeit as a jobseeker?
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Old Mar 10th 2021, 10:18 am
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by sternchen View Post
Are you registered with the Agentur für Arbeit as a jobseeker?
To answer that in a nutshell, yes.
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Old Mar 10th 2021, 12:49 pm
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Default Re: Withdrawl Agreement Question Help

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
Yes, I have looked a bit deeper into my situation as I was in employement
From what you've said so far, i.e. that you were only employed for six months and that your employment ceased 18 months ago, my understanding (I'm not a legal expert) of the FreizügG/EU § 2 (3) (http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/fr...eizügG_EU.pdf) is that you would by now have lost any claim to residency based upon your employment status, even if Brexit hadn't happened.

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
have and continue to seek employement
Under the FreizügG/EU, you can do that for (up to) six months after losing your job if your job was for less than 12 months. You've now been out of employment for 18 months.

There is a special exception if you can prove that you're likely to be employed, but then you have to prove that.

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
was a student
But you're not any more...

Originally Posted by Dan38 View Post
and have and continue to have insurance cover
Insurance cover may be a requirement for you to claim residency status, but it doesn't of itself confer a right to it.

It isn't a points-based system under which you get credit for these things. You need to satisfy the criteria for residency. Even if you satisfy the Brexit-related criteria for residency, you won't acquire any more rights than you would have had if Brexit had never happened.

If you don't accept my interpretation (and why should you, I'm just some bloke on the Internet), find an immigration lawyer and pay him to explain the situation to you exactly. It will cost, but would be worth it.

You might be able to gain residency status on the basis of your relationship to your partner: see § 3a in the FreizügG/EU. Your best bet would obviously be to get a job, and by my understanding you've got a stay of grace until 30 June 2021.

Last edited by scrubbedexpat0105; Mar 10th 2021 at 12:50 pm. Reason: Broken link
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