Rube

Hello, thanks for allowing me to join this site. My husband and I have decided to move to either France or Spain in the next few years and will visit a few areas starting in the autumn. We have a completely blank canvas and are looking for ideas of what geographical areas to start looking. Climate is important, I found the British heatwave this year too hot and I wouldn’t want the temperature to be over 30 degrees for months. We don’t speak any other languages (although we will learn) and therefore sociable ex/pats or locals that speak English would be useful. We’ll be in our early 50’s and at some stage will be looking for part time work possibly using our skills in fitness, rugby coaching, photography, dog training or security/investigation. We love live music, ideally would live within 5 mins drive to amenities but rent/buy a house with 1/2-1 acre of land and live in a dog friendly area. Budget £2-£300k to buy or £1000pcm to rent. Any ideas on where to start looking would be amazing.
Thanks in advance
Rube

EuroTrash

Welcome to the forum!
A few comments, which probably aren't exactly what you're looking for, but here goes.

Climate change - yikes, it's making any decisions based on climate very up in the air (as it were) at the moment. This summer was exceptionally hot in most of Europe I think. Remains to be seen whether it was a one off or the beginning of a trend. But generally speaking, climates tend to get more extreme as you head south, with colder winters and hotter summers.

Geographically - I know you said a blank canvas, but surely you have some preferences? Do you like mountains? Coast? Rivers? Green landscapes? Forests? Long distance views? Dramatic landscapes? Gentle landscapes? Grand ornate architecture? Chocolate-box-cute rustic architecture? What areas have you already visited, and which of those did you like and which didn't you like? What exactly are you hoping to find in France or Spain that you can't find in the UK?

Then there's the elephant in the room
Do you have another EU passport besides British? If not, before you get too emotionally invested in this, hadn't you better wait until there is more certainty on what Brexit is going to throw up? At present it's looking very unlikely that Brits will have the automatic right to move to live and work in the EU after either next March or the end of 2020, depending on if there is a transition or not.

Visiting different places and getting an insight into the local culture and vibes and way of life is great, it would be a shame not to do that if you have the inclination and the opportunity. But I would suggest that at this stage you simply enjoy the experience for its own sake. The chances are that one or two places that you visit will stick in your mind and tug at you to go back. Then, in a few years' time, if and when you are in a position to move, you'll have a good idea of where to focus on.

dmu

I would add that the OP should research carefully the idea of doing part-time work in the occupations mentioned. If employed in any of them (and they'd have stiff competition from French people eking out their income with additional "petits boulots"), they would have to set up various business structures. Meanwhile, as "inactifs", they would have to take out private healthcare insurance from Day-1 to comply with the eligibility for French Social Security and Résidence (in addition to the condition of resources).

EuroTrash

Realistically DMU I don't think we can assume petits boulots are going to be an option for Brits after Brexit. As a non EU ressortissant you can't set up a business without a carte de séjour that allows you to work, and AFAIK it hasn't been confirmed that Brits living in the EU on a carte de séjour for inactives at the cut-off date, will subsequently be allowed to change status and start working. If TM stops EU citizens moving to the UK and taking work from British workers, which she seems committed to doing, then IMHO it would be extraordinarily generous of the EU to not reciprocate.

dmu

I didn't express myself well! I meant that the French often eke out their low income by doing "petits boulots", e.g. in the activities that the OP is suggesting. I'm not suggesting that the OP takes on these "little jobs" (sounds silly in English!) to earn a living, Brexit or not. They are so varied that they'd need to choose a couple and set up 2 Auto-Entrepreneur businesses (some one also mentioned "Autonomos" on the Spain forum). Except for photography, they would probably need to obtain equivalent French diplomas before they could work.
@Rube - Sorry to add to the various issues, but fore-warned is fore-armed!

EuroTrash

Yes but my point was that unless you're an EU citizen or you have a carte de séjour that entitles you to work, you can't set up a micro entreprise in France. The system won't let you. If you don't hold an EU passport and you don't have the right carte de séjour, you can't start the application process, computer will say NON..
Americans, Australians, Chinese etc who come here on non working visas can't do any kind of work here, not even for pin money. It's a condition of the visa, in fact some consulates actually make you write out an attestation promising not to work.
Spain may be more flexible about this, it is about many things, so maybe it's possible to set up as an autonomo.

dmu

Didn't think of that side of things... So, everything depends on how Brexit turns out...

EuroTrash

I think a lot of people haven't. What you read on French forums is mostly people whingeing about pensions, exchange rates and who's going to pay for healthcare for pensioners and early retirees. But in fact, it's the younger Brits who had hoped to move to the EU to work and build their lives here, who are going to be most impacted by losing freedom of movement. I'm not saying that retirees and inactives don't have cause for anxiety, but basically it's all about money and as long as they have enough in the bank they'll be fine. Whereas for young Brits it's about life opportunities being closed off, because doing what I and many others have done in the past, coming here and working freelance and/or applying for jobs and building a good life here, may simply no longer be possible.

cyrian

We have neighbours in a normally temperate region of France who are going to re-locate to the UK because they cannot cope with the high summer temperatures in 2017 and 2018.
He is English and she is French.
You may not get an accurate picture of the heat in the summer or the cold in the winter unless you spend some time in your chosen regions in France at different times of the year.
HTH

tooboocoo

Whereas for young Brits it's about life opportunities being closed off, because doing what I and many others have done in the past, coming here and working freelance and/or applying for jobs and building a good life here, may simply no longer be possible.

Those possibilities are not ending - hundreds of thousands of non-EU foreigners work in France, through having secured skilled or specialist work, or intra-company transfers, or a myriad of other ways. Young Brits will only lose their present rights to (a) reside in France before finding such suitable employment, and (b) reside in France without suitable (or any) employment.

EuroTrash

But don't you agree that your last sentence applies to an awful lot of young Brits, possibly the majority? At present Brits don't need specialist skills, they don't need to work for a multinational company and get transferred, it's an opportunity that's open to anyone who wants to take advantage of it. In future it will be an opportunity that's open only to the select few. So basically, yes Brits will have the same restricted possibilities as other non-EU foreigners - but at present their options are far less restricted.
I don't have specialist skills, I didn't work for a multinational in the UK, I would never have got sponsored by a French employer because there are French people who can do what I do. I didn't have tens of thousands of pounds to invest in setting up a business that would provide employment and benefit the French economy. As an EU citizen I was able to come here and set up as a freelancer and earn a decent living. As a non EU citizen I couldn't have done that. That's why I'm saying that opportunities will be closed off. There will be possibilities but not for everyone.

I assume you're not an EU citizen. Freedom of movement seems to be one of those things that's taken for granted by those who have it, not fully understood by those who have never had it, and only really appreciated by those who currently have it but might be about to lose it.

tooboocoo

I agree it will be more difficult, especially for the young, and very difficult for unskilled workers. The last 25 years have been an unusual, fortunate period of almost unlimited freedom for EU citizens. But most of the world is (and has usually been) very strict indeed about residence yet millions of people still manage to move, work and live globally. There's just a bit of paperwork involved - it's an annoyance, but not a huge impediment - depending on the particular destination, of course.

There's nothing preventing the EU from agreeing a reciprocal 'Young Temporary Worker' visa (or even just an arrangement) with the UK after Brexit, just like they have with Canada (say) or the UK has with Oz and NZ. If the present setup is beneficial to France, why would they not want to somehow continue it?

EuroTrash

So it'll be very difficult but at the same time just a bit of paperwork and not a huge impediment. I don't think Theresa May herself could have been clearer.

All I was saying was that some Brits (the arts graduates, the liberal professions, the ones with mainstream skills that there's no shortage of in any EU country) who at present have the freedom to move to Europe if they so wish, may no longer have that freedom that after Brexit. I think we agree up to that point. You don't seem to think it matters, I think it's a great shame, so let's agree to disagree on that.

tooboocoo

I even agree that it's a shame, just not a catastrophe. The good, the motivated and the hardworking will always have those opportunities - like they had for generations before the EU ever existed.
And since you brought up TM... if I recall correctly, one of her very first moves after becoming PM was to offer to guarantee the future rights of EU nationals in/to the UK if reciprocity was agreed - but Barnier et al rejected it. That's where the "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" came from.

Anyway, as you say, we're only differing in degree. Good night.

Rube

Hi Cyrian

Thanks for this. What area of France were they living in out of interest?

Regards