Jon-Bxl

Ive heard that in the UK a good time to sell a home is in the New Year.

Sellers and buyers apparently get a resolution to change over Xmas... And e.g buyers can be in for the summer holidays and so arrange schooling for the new school year. Likewise sellers are then buyers for their next move.

Is there a similar situation in France, do you think, please?

I'm thinking particularly of holiday destinations like the Cote d'Azur, Brittany, SW France etc etc.

Perhaps there we see a different buying or selling clientele. So......

As a buyer is there a good period, please...
And likewise for a seller ... A good time. Ideally both are the same, of course

Any thoughts please?

Jon

cyrian

You can't compare the housing market in the UK to that in France.
Apart from a few locations e.g. Paris; Lyon and less so in Marseille or Toulouse a house purchase is not an investment.
You may or may not get your money back even if you have upgraded a property.
However, as in the UK, it all depends on location.
France is a large country with fewer large cities than in the UK and many rural properties.
Homes in France can take years to sell especially in rural locations.
The rental market is large in France and there is (in my opinion) an oversupply of new rental properties (especially flats).
Under current tax laws, if you buy a new-build as a rental property then you get significant tax credits over several years.
We live in a development of 160 flats - the majority of which are rental. These properties never come on the market for sale.
If you are thinking of buying then I would suggest that you look to buy in an area where there could be a stronger demand.
e.g. near transport links or schools or hospital or a university where there will be a demand from people to work in these places.
I suspect that the market dies during the main holiday periods.
Remember that house sales in the UK still happen during the "quiet" periods.
HTH

EuroTrash

I expect I'm missing something, but surely the best time to sell a holiday property is at the end of the holiday season, and the best time to buy a holiday property is just before the start of the holiday season - because owning a holiday property out of season is basically just a nuisance.
However I do realise that not every property in a "holiday destination' is a holiday home because people do also live and work in these places.
So I'm really not sure what you are asking.

But as cyrian said. The UK has a "property market", France not so much outside of Paris and a few other metropolises. France has houses that sit on the market for years with the sellers not particularly expecting to sell any time soon but if somebody happens to come along that wants to buy then so much the better. It's a far colder, more low key market all round, hence why English buyers are often incredulous at estate agents' take-it-or-leave-it attitude and the frequently poor photographs and marketing, but that's just how it is. There is nothing particularly aspirational about home ownership because there is no social stigma attached to renting, so the UK concept of the "property ladder" doesn't really exist where people are constantly buying and selling in a process of climbing up that ladder rung by rung. Maybe things are changing but up to my generation at least, it was normal to rent your home at the beginning your career, through getting married, starting a family, maybe moving jobs and changing location, and it wasn't until you felt settled and reasonably confident that you wouldn't need to move again, that you started thinking about whether to buy a house or not. I am really not sure that the scenario you mention of making a new year's resolution to move house, is really a French thing. It's more a case of, you move when you need to move, when your current home for some reason doesn't match your needs any more. Even with rentals, you get couples who have lived pretty much their entire married life in the same rented property. In the UK you tend to assume that every well off family owns the house they live in, but you can't assume that in France because many don't, even though they could easily afford to buy if they wanted.

I don't suppose that answers your question but it may help you to look at the question differently.

It is also reported that since the pandemic, people are tending to move out of cities into more rural areas. Depending on why you're asking the question, it might be a good idea to research this trend and try and get an idea of whether it's going to have a long term effect and what that effect is likely to be.

wellinever

As a footnote, the French are probably the single biggest buyers of property in the Algarve now. A few years ago you would not have seen a French car at all, now they are almost every other one, in my area at least. Maybe be down to the Non habitual Tax residency Portugal offers.

Jon-Bxl

Yes I can attest to that. The NHR is a big draw, as is the weather and property prices compared to say Paris or other metropolitan cities + other reasons. We spend a lot of time there every year (we have a home in Spain right on the border... With the closest resto outside our 'community' in PT!) and as French speakers we are delighted to have found a new francophone community + friends over the last few years, something we never expected when we bought. . Once we went to a fave local resto in PT and everybody was yapping in French! Its not even that popular ... ! A family resto...

Re my OP. Thanks for the prompt and detailed responses, Of course I am not comparing UK to France, I used that simply as an opener to kick off the discussion as to the differences in the 2 countries/regions. If any.

Of course I realise that rural areas are different from touristic areas, which is why I focused on that.

I am sure that there are many people reading the forum considering a potential move there or a 2nd residence in a 'holiday' area . Some maybe a move out. Or a change.

Obviously the 'twain must meet' when a seller and a buyer are ready to sign up. So I was curious if in France, in the more touristy regions, if there are times of the year which are better.... For both...

Maybe not.... End of...

​​​​​​If there are no real timing advantages on buying, or selling property ... Thats great. If there are ... Im curious to know... Maybe others are too..

Jon

EuroTrash

Are they though?
You use "Brittany" as an example of a tourist area, but in fact Brittany is France's main agricultural region, 'the bread-basket of France' as they call it, plus in the cities it has a lot of industry, mainly food processing but not only. Machinery. Chemical. Plastics. Rubber. Technology. Universities. Of course there are seaside resorts along the Brittany coast that are packed with tourists in the summer, and rural gites scattered all over Brittany, but tourism isn't Brittany's main economy. Most of the people who live and work in Brittany, have no connection with the tourist industry.
Is Paris touristic? You'd have to say Yes, because just look at how many tourists it attracts, but tourism is not Paris' raison d'être.
The same with the wine growing areas, they attract hoards of tourists and make a lot of money out of them but the main land use is vineyards and wine estates.
So I am not sure how you can say "this region is a holiday area and this region isn't". I think across most of France it is a lot more specific than that, there are particular towns or in some cases particular quartiers of a city that are touristic and have a high percentage of holiday homes, but drive ten kilometres down the road and the picture is totally different, you're in a housing estate or working farmland and there is nothing for tourists.

I think I kind of see what you're asking now, but I am not sure that buying and selling property is seasonal like that, even in the holiday home sector.

Jon-Bxl

Was off line traveling back from a holiday. Landing in a storm was 'interesting', and when we landed safely, there was the longest + loudest clapping outbreak Ive heard, (though I dont partake in that.)

Thanks for taking the time to share this info.

I mentioned Brittany and other areas, just as examples of popular areas.... with a lot of "etc's" after just to focus on touristy areas, I wasn't looking for a discussion on Brittany itself. However I still feel Britanny is an area that attracts significant tourism. With France already right at the top of the countries most visited by tourists Britanny's % of that is a good level of tourism income IMO. I haven't checked the numbers though, as I was interested if there was a seasonable aspect to the sales/purchase process only. Obviously not all of Brittany is 'touristic' But its not important let's agree to disagree on that.

Covid lockdowns have revealed the places who have a local economic dependency on tourism ... So I guess one could research the real-life % impact over the past couple of years to see this. Im pretty sure Paris will have been really impacted too. Though not all of Paris' regions, of course. I remember reading an official report a couple of years back, that France was the most visited country world-wide, with Paris at the top of the list.

Anyway we are keen viewers of "immo programmes"... E.g Escape to the country, Escape to the perfect town (my UK favourite) 'A place in the sun' in UK etc. In France Stephan (2-sinks!) Plazas and other progs e.g Chasseurs d'apart'.... etc etc..... (Note the etc's here). I also can't resist looking in the immo's windows when passing - wherever I am.

There is a stronger home ownership 'mentality' in the UK than many countries on the continent, so its already a different situation. For sure Ive heard 'seasonality of buying/selling' talked off in the UK.... But I don't recall any discussion of it on the French side, so queried it here. Though I probably had the answer from the telly!

I think its clear from this feedback, that the differing situations, cultures etc between the countries mean there isn't much 'seasonality' in France.... Vs UK...

I'll keep looking in the windows, dreaming, and if, at any time, I can 'pull the trigger' I will

Jon

G-J-B

Having dealt with property in central Paris and a popular spot on the Brittany coast, my experience is it's not seasonal, and it doesn't make that much difference when you advertise because the demand is always there. In terms of coastal property, you may have more luck around the summer months as people have been on their holidays, enjoyed the sunshine, sand and sea and someone with money might be driven by that experience to invest in a holiday home or some sort of investment. With the pandemic the markets have seen even more demand these past two years. Both those locations have proven very lucrative and it's usually easy to sell or rent in no time at all. Of course there are other parts of France that fit that bill too, but they can be few and far between.

Go out into the more rural areas and there's so much available that it is really hard to sell, and almost impossible to make a profit unless you bought a bargain to begin with. It can also take years to sell anything, so you have to be prepared for a long wait. It's the antithesis to the UK market; lots of supply, not so much demand; interiors are often very dated, and usually there's something about the house that requires some degree of fixing up.

Jon-Bxl

Thanks G-J-B
Good feedback. There are many reasons why touristy places are popular. Its why I prefer looking at them. Not the overpopulated overdone areas - the international equivalents of 'kiss me quick hats' and streets crammed full of bars + discos.

Rural living is also not my thing, personally. Its why I attempted to steer the OP away from that direction and its e.g why my fave UK house purchase show is 'Escape to the perfect town'...

Its good that there are no major timing issues or 'seasonality' when dealing with property in France, except perhaps the coastal properties in popular areas.

Jon

G-J-B

I can understand rural locations aren't for everyone. I've done both extremes - central Paris and out in the middle of nowhere, and both worked well for me at the age I was and the time I was living there. The more I've explored the 'middle of nowhere' the less it's felt like nowhere, and has really become a remarkable region full of wonderful history and beauty.

I can only speak from my own experience, but we went for a coastal house in a particularly popular part of Brittany, as a place for future retirement in the long term, and as an investment in the short-term. There's plenty of apartments available that get rented seasonally, but as an investment I think you'd only break even. Annual renting of a house proved to be a really good investment, but trying to do it on a relatively low budget was an experience - within a certain price bracket, property can sell instantly, as we discovered when we were the first to call about something that came onto the market, only to find someone else offered to buy it the following morning before we had a chance to see it. In fact the buyer purchased it without a visit.

In the end we set off at 3 o'clock in the morning to get arrive there for 9 o'clock, got let down by two agents, but a friendly third one, showed us around at the weekend, and by sheer luck had something off the books, that was listed by a fellow agent, but who was in another part of the country at the time. We got first look, and made an offer on it in the evening; by morning it was accepted. In the year and a half that's followed, I have not found a single house the same sort of size, price and proximity to the coast on the market. When we put it up for rent, we had a dozen interested parties on the first day, a number of them wanting to take it without even visiting first. Sadly most of the market is taken up by seasonal or second home owners, so annual rents are very hard to come by, with the exception of studio apartments.

By contrast, we put our house in the country on the market one time, for three years. Lots of visits and nice words, but no takers. We decided we liked where we were, so took it back off. The two locations couldn't be more chalk and cheese.

Jon-Bxl

Great story... Thanks for sharing 👍

A new spin Re buying/selling timing...

I've seen a lot of interest in the past few years from Russian buyers in the CD'azur when we visit and 'window shop' . In fact many estate agents window ads are in Russian as the 2nd language now. I hear more spoken in eg the restos etc. In fact I suspect that this has affected market pricing going up over time.

With this awful war in Europe and sanctions etc, I'm not sure if its a good time to buy or sell... ??

There may be Russians who may well want to leave Russia now... Others who may find it hard to move their money.. Or the crashing ruble makes it impossible.

So I have no idea what the effect would be on buying/selling timing. I suspect the wealthy Russians have already taken steps (over the years) to move to foreign currency investments etc.

Note I'm sure someone will flame me for talking about house prices when there is this horrible war going on..... But its the topic ... Not the war. But of course there will be many outcomes from this. One of these is prices.....

Any thoughts?

Jon

EuroTrash

The thing is that the market you are talking about here is kinda separate from the "French" property market. The part of the Riviera where oligarchs and others "invest", is millionaire's playground territory. It's subject to different factors, than the France most of us live in. I guess the factors that affect that niche are international so if that's where you're interested in, maybe you should be looking at what's happening in Mayfair, the Seychelles, wherever people invest megabucks, rather than across France where in general nobody invests megabucks.
I'm not sure we have any millionaires on the forum?

Jon-Bxl

Of course its a different situation regionally as it is in every country, that's stating the obvious.

But its just some musing - for those that are interested. If not no need to follow this thread. Its just a piblic 'chat' with more people. As many threads are. I'm interested in what people think for conversational purposes.. of course I could check Mayfair etc, but that's not the point...

In the past 3 days Ive also 'chatted' about what we'd do if we win the big lottery tonight, also the situation in the South China Sea. Something that is unlikely to affect the majority of people ! But interesting perhaps for some.

​​​​I have no idea if there are any/many millionaires, but if they are interested in contributing I would be very interested in hearing, even though I have no chance of buying say a super-yacht!

Hmmmmm ..... Unless I win the lotto tonight... Hey I better buy a ticket!

Jon

Jon-Bxl

Whilst I am interested in most discussions on French property, including non-standard cases, like the impact of geo-political factors in the touristy areas....

Here is a report, from a trusted source which covers a lot of facts + information... That may answer some questions.... And illicit some new ones
Jon
https://www.notaires.fr/en/housing-t...aps-prices-sqm

EuroTrash

There you've done it now Jon-Bxl , you're making me nostalgic for a good old house price discussion I don't think I've had one since I left the UK 15 years ago, I know it used to be an inexhaustible topic of conversation, that and mortgage rates - didn't there even used to be monthly updates in the media from the Halifax and other lenders on housing market trends? Unfortunately I can't for the life of me remember what we all used to find to say about it and why it was so fascinating.

But go on then, let's see if we can get a conversation going. At the risk of being told off for stating the obvious yet again, I'll kick off by making the point that you would need at least 7% increase in price to cover the cost of the "notaire's fees" plus your moving costs and break even. Eg on a 500 000€ property you would be looking at notaire's fees of around 36 128€. It can make moving house an expensive hobby.