Speeding
Sep 17th 2011, 11:45 am
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Live in France (01), work in Switzerland
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Speeding
Hi guys,
Now for the next round of help please
Last year I lost my driving licence for speeding, I thought the voie rapide was a 130 when it was a 110 and I went over the speed limit to over take someone, anyways long and short no excuses, busted.
The police took my driving licence (English one) off me there and then instantly gave me a 45 day ban, a few days later I received a letter from the sous prefecture saying provisional ban of 45 days, saying my licence was being taken off me and that it had to be changed to a French one. If I refused then there would be penalties as per article ....... 45 days of no driving, renewed my licence no problems, all forgotten about.
Anyway 14 months later (June just gone) I receive a later from the Juridiction in Nantua saying I have a 250 euros fine for my speeding and a 15 day ban. My wife rang the Juridiction and told them I'd already done 45 days, and they said OK just send in the fine.
This morning a policemen rocks up to my door with a convocation to bring my driving licence to the local police station, we dutifully go along for them to tell us that they are taking my driving licence for 15 days as per the juridiction from June. To which we explained I'd already done 45 days a year and a half ago, paid the fine, spoken to Nantua Juridiction and then this. The the officer went back office to get the dossier, clearly confused by the situation, come out with colleagues recognised I'd already done 45 days, alot of shoulder shrugging later I walk out with my driving licence with them saying they'll be in touch.
Does anyone have any experience of the difference between prefecture bans, those issued by the police on the spot and the eventual judicial results, as I'm pretty confused? No where does it say I should serve 60 days, just 15 on the latest documents and 45 on the original ones.
Thanks again
Now for the next round of help please
Last year I lost my driving licence for speeding, I thought the voie rapide was a 130 when it was a 110 and I went over the speed limit to over take someone, anyways long and short no excuses, busted.
The police took my driving licence (English one) off me there and then instantly gave me a 45 day ban, a few days later I received a letter from the sous prefecture saying provisional ban of 45 days, saying my licence was being taken off me and that it had to be changed to a French one. If I refused then there would be penalties as per article ....... 45 days of no driving, renewed my licence no problems, all forgotten about.
Anyway 14 months later (June just gone) I receive a later from the Juridiction in Nantua saying I have a 250 euros fine for my speeding and a 15 day ban. My wife rang the Juridiction and told them I'd already done 45 days, and they said OK just send in the fine.
This morning a policemen rocks up to my door with a convocation to bring my driving licence to the local police station, we dutifully go along for them to tell us that they are taking my driving licence for 15 days as per the juridiction from June. To which we explained I'd already done 45 days a year and a half ago, paid the fine, spoken to Nantua Juridiction and then this. The the officer went back office to get the dossier, clearly confused by the situation, come out with colleagues recognised I'd already done 45 days, alot of shoulder shrugging later I walk out with my driving licence with them saying they'll be in touch.
Does anyone have any experience of the difference between prefecture bans, those issued by the police on the spot and the eventual judicial results, as I'm pretty confused? No where does it say I should serve 60 days, just 15 on the latest documents and 45 on the original ones.
Thanks again
Last edited by cuthbert; Sep 17th 2011 at 11:54 am.
Sep 17th 2011, 1:51 pm
#2
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,551
Re: Speeding
Hi guys,
Now for the next round of help please
Last year I lost my driving licence for speeding, I thought the voie rapide was a 130 when it was a 110 and I went over the speed limit to over take someone, anyways long and short no excuses, busted.
The police took my driving licence (English one) off me there and then instantly gave me a 45 day ban, a few days later I received a letter from the sous prefecture saying provisional ban of 45 days, saying my licence was being taken off me and that it had to be changed to a French one. If I refused then there would be penalties as per article ....... 45 days of no driving, renewed my licence no problems, all forgotten about.
Anyway 14 months later (June just gone) I receive a later from the Juridiction in Nantua saying I have a 250 euros fine for my speeding and a 15 day ban. My wife rang the Juridiction and told them I'd already done 45 days, and they said OK just send in the fine.
This morning a policemen rocks up to my door with a convocation to bring my driving licence to the local police station, we dutifully go along for them to tell us that they are taking my driving licence for 15 days as per the juridiction from June. To which we explained I'd already done 45 days a year and a half ago, paid the fine, spoken to Nantua Juridiction and then this. The the officer went back office to get the dossier, clearly confused by the situation, come out with colleagues recognised I'd already done 45 days, alot of shoulder shrugging later I walk out with my driving licence with them saying they'll be in touch.
Does anyone have any experience of the difference between prefecture bans, those issued by the police on the spot and the eventual judicial results, as I'm pretty confused? No where does it say I should serve 60 days, just 15 on the latest documents and 45 on the original ones.
Thanks again
Now for the next round of help please
Last year I lost my driving licence for speeding, I thought the voie rapide was a 130 when it was a 110 and I went over the speed limit to over take someone, anyways long and short no excuses, busted.
The police took my driving licence (English one) off me there and then instantly gave me a 45 day ban, a few days later I received a letter from the sous prefecture saying provisional ban of 45 days, saying my licence was being taken off me and that it had to be changed to a French one. If I refused then there would be penalties as per article ....... 45 days of no driving, renewed my licence no problems, all forgotten about.
Anyway 14 months later (June just gone) I receive a later from the Juridiction in Nantua saying I have a 250 euros fine for my speeding and a 15 day ban. My wife rang the Juridiction and told them I'd already done 45 days, and they said OK just send in the fine.
This morning a policemen rocks up to my door with a convocation to bring my driving licence to the local police station, we dutifully go along for them to tell us that they are taking my driving licence for 15 days as per the juridiction from June. To which we explained I'd already done 45 days a year and a half ago, paid the fine, spoken to Nantua Juridiction and then this. The the officer went back office to get the dossier, clearly confused by the situation, come out with colleagues recognised I'd already done 45 days, alot of shoulder shrugging later I walk out with my driving licence with them saying they'll be in touch.
Does anyone have any experience of the difference between prefecture bans, those issued by the police on the spot and the eventual judicial results, as I'm pretty confused? No where does it say I should serve 60 days, just 15 on the latest documents and 45 on the original ones.
Thanks again
Sep 17th 2011, 4:10 pm
#3
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Joined: Feb 2011
Location: 42
Posts: 445
Re: Speeding
Can you expand on the photo issue, as my French driving license is 42 years old, in three tatty pink pieces with a photo of a teenage peabrain on it. No one's complained yet, but ...
iscovered that the photo needs renewing anyway probably lucky I didn't get a ticket for a out of date license as well.
Sep 17th 2011, 4:40 pm
#4
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Location: Hérault (34)
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Re: Speeding
Neither of us has ever had to show our licences to any one (
), and the thought has never occurred to me to ask whether the photos have to be changed...
Sep 17th 2011, 6:38 pm
#5
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Location: SE Dordogne France
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Re: Speeding
Talk of exchanging clearly implies a UK (or other EU) licence
Regarding lengths of bans, within the maximums prescribed for the class of offence I think a ban of anything from nil to the maximum can be imposed more or less at the whim of the person making the decision, you did say that the original 45 days was provisional, but read on !
It's not widely appreciated that with a UK licence the Gendarmes have absolutely no authority whasoever to ban you from driving in France although they effectively do that by confiscating your licence as without it you can't drive.
In that event there would be nothing to prevent you from immediately returning to UK and obtaining a replacement (I leave aside the question of fibbing to DVLA about your place of residence) nor would you subsequently be breaking any law by driving on it in France. It's only when you have a French licence that they can legally impose a ban so a logical argument could be made to the effect that a ban could not and would not start until you had that.
I would strongly not recommend putting this to the test though, or at least not in the department where you were caught anyway.
Regarding lengths of bans, within the maximums prescribed for the class of offence I think a ban of anything from nil to the maximum can be imposed more or less at the whim of the person making the decision, you did say that the original 45 days was provisional, but read on !
It's not widely appreciated that with a UK licence the Gendarmes have absolutely no authority whasoever to ban you from driving in France although they effectively do that by confiscating your licence as without it you can't drive.
In that event there would be nothing to prevent you from immediately returning to UK and obtaining a replacement (I leave aside the question of fibbing to DVLA about your place of residence) nor would you subsequently be breaking any law by driving on it in France. It's only when you have a French licence that they can legally impose a ban so a logical argument could be made to the effect that a ban could not and would not start until you had that.
I would strongly not recommend putting this to the test though, or at least not in the department where you were caught anyway.
Sep 17th 2011, 6:41 pm
#6
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Location: SE Dordogne France
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Re: Speeding
Duplicated post.
Last edited by Im_and_Er; Sep 17th 2011 at 6:42 pm. Reason: Duplicate post !
Sep 17th 2011, 7:02 pm
#7
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Re: Speeding
Ka Ora! didn't specify that it was a UK licence. In fact, my ancient UK licence, which I never use here, hasn't got a photo, and when I was issued a French licence at the end of the 60's on the basis of my UK one, I was surprized to have to get a photo made.
Sep 17th 2011, 8:59 pm
#9
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Joined: Mar 2008
Location: SE Dordogne France
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Re: Speeding
So is it (or should that be 'was' it
) a UK licence ?
) a UK licence ?
Sep 20th 2011, 6:09 pm
#11
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Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Live in France (01), work in Switzerland
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Re: Speeding
Right ladies and gents, welcome to France where the left hand doesn't only not talk to the right hand, they don't even know each other exists.
Long and short I did 30 days too many for the driving ban, the local sous prefecture didn't really have the right to issue that but the response from the officious Madame in Nantua was "boff baaaah Madame, c'est le système français, ce n'est pas parfait" and hung up.
The Policewoman afterwards then said well this isn't the first time and foreign driving licences are causing a lot of problems. For those of you who still have your British licence and IF you get caught and they want to take your licence, you might want to take advice, or try and say you will wait until the justice has ruled on the case.
Long and short I did 30 days too many for the driving ban, the local sous prefecture didn't really have the right to issue that but the response from the officious Madame in Nantua was "boff baaaah Madame, c'est le système français, ce n'est pas parfait" and hung up.
The Policewoman afterwards then said well this isn't the first time and foreign driving licences are causing a lot of problems. For those of you who still have your British licence and IF you get caught and they want to take your licence, you might want to take advice, or try and say you will wait until the justice has ruled on the case.
Sep 20th 2011, 7:21 pm
#12
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Le Givre 85
Posts: 1,343
Re: Speeding
Right ladies and gents, welcome to France where the left hand doesn't only not talk to the right hand, they don't even know each other exists.
Long and short I did 30 days too many for the driving ban, the local sous prefecture didn't really have the right to issue that but the response from the officious Madame in Nantua was "boff baaaah Madame, c'est le système français, ce n'est pas parfait" and hung up.
The Policewoman afterwards then said well this isn't the first time and foreign driving licences are causing a lot of problems. For those of you who still have your British licence and IF you get caught and they want to take your licence, you might want to take advice, or try and say you will wait until the justice has ruled on the case.
Long and short I did 30 days too many for the driving ban, the local sous prefecture didn't really have the right to issue that but the response from the officious Madame in Nantua was "boff baaaah Madame, c'est le système français, ce n'est pas parfait" and hung up.
The Policewoman afterwards then said well this isn't the first time and foreign driving licences are causing a lot of problems. For those of you who still have your British licence and IF you get caught and they want to take your licence, you might want to take advice, or try and say you will wait until the justice has ruled on the case.
On a sidebar, what is the advice from the UK Consulate if that be the right name)? Cuthberts situation and others here can't be unique ...
Sep 20th 2011, 8:00 pm
#13
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Location: Live in France (01), work in Switzerland
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Re: Speeding
As I understand it, your UK driving licence is in essence an EU driving licence, and so you can drive on it in France with no need to change. The issue comes up if your main residence is in fact in France you cannot have a British driving licence registered abroad (I'll admit mine was still at my parents house, I'd registered it there after I'd sold my house and came out here)
Though you are obliged to surrender your licence if you get points for any infraction.
http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1757.xhtml
I didn't get any points on my new French licence for my speeding, so it seems to be keep your licence as long as you can and only surrender when necessary. I think the consulates take will be that you are French residents and accordingly should change your licences, but I'd be interested to find out if anyone knows about the police issuing bans there and then on the spot which is far more than the final judgement issued months or years later.
Though you are obliged to surrender your licence if you get points for any infraction.
http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1757.xhtml
I didn't get any points on my new French licence for my speeding, so it seems to be keep your licence as long as you can and only surrender when necessary. I think the consulates take will be that you are French residents and accordingly should change your licences, but I'd be interested to find out if anyone knows about the police issuing bans there and then on the spot which is far more than the final judgement issued months or years later.
Sep 21st 2011, 10:34 am
#14
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Re: Speeding
There is no obligation to inform DVLA of a change of address outside of the UK and contrary to what many seem to believe the fact that you have not, because you cannot in that circumstance, does not invalidate your licence.
Whilst the French have the right to demand an exchange if you have committed a point or points deductable offence there is no automatic obligation to exchange simply because you have commited it. If they want you to exchange then they must tell you so otherwise you do not have to do it.
As I said earlier the gendarmes have no legal right to ban you from driving on the spot and in fact technically they are not doing that but confiscating your UK licence is tant amount to the same thing. To be honest I don't know if they are even legally allowed to do that, probably not would be my guess, if they cannot do it to a French citizen holding a French licence then I would say definitely not, but it's a bit difficult to argue with a man with a gun !
No mechanisms or procedures exist for deducting or recording points against a non French licence so the expectation would be for an exchanged one to be clean however it's both probable and logical that individual prefectures would deduct the points lost for the actual offence which has prompted the exchange in the first place so I think cuthbert may have been lucky
Whilst the French have the right to demand an exchange if you have committed a point or points deductable offence there is no automatic obligation to exchange simply because you have commited it. If they want you to exchange then they must tell you so otherwise you do not have to do it.
As I said earlier the gendarmes have no legal right to ban you from driving on the spot and in fact technically they are not doing that but confiscating your UK licence is tant amount to the same thing. To be honest I don't know if they are even legally allowed to do that, probably not would be my guess, if they cannot do it to a French citizen holding a French licence then I would say definitely not, but it's a bit difficult to argue with a man with a gun !
No mechanisms or procedures exist for deducting or recording points against a non French licence so the expectation would be for an exchanged one to be clean however it's both probable and logical that individual prefectures would deduct the points lost for the actual offence which has prompted the exchange in the first place so I think cuthbert may have been lucky
Sep 21st 2011, 12:19 pm
#15
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Posts: 263
Re: Speeding
There is no obligation to inform DVLA of a change of address outside of the UK and contrary to what many seem to believe the fact that you have not, because you cannot in that circumstance, does not invalidate your licence.
Whilst the French have the right to demand an exchange if you have committed a point or points deductable offence there is no automatic obligation to exchange simply because you have commited it. If they want you to exchange then they must tell you so otherwise you do not have to do it.
As I said earlier the gendarmes have no legal right to ban you from driving on the spot and in fact technically they are not doing that but confiscating your UK licence is tant amount to the same thing. To be honest I don't know if they are even legally allowed to do that, probably not would be my guess, if they cannot do it to a French citizen holding a French licence then I would say definitely not, but it's a bit difficult to argue with a man with a gun !
No mechanisms or procedures exist for deducting or recording points against a non French licence so the expectation would be for an exchanged one to be clean however it's both probable and logical that individual prefectures would deduct the points lost for the actual offence which has prompted the exchange in the first place so I think cuthbert may have been lucky
Whilst the French have the right to demand an exchange if you have committed a point or points deductable offence there is no automatic obligation to exchange simply because you have commited it. If they want you to exchange then they must tell you so otherwise you do not have to do it.
As I said earlier the gendarmes have no legal right to ban you from driving on the spot and in fact technically they are not doing that but confiscating your UK licence is tant amount to the same thing. To be honest I don't know if they are even legally allowed to do that, probably not would be my guess, if they cannot do it to a French citizen holding a French licence then I would say definitely not, but it's a bit difficult to argue with a man with a gun !
No mechanisms or procedures exist for deducting or recording points against a non French licence so the expectation would be for an exchanged one to be clean however it's both probable and logical that individual prefectures would deduct the points lost for the actual offence which has prompted the exchange in the first place so I think cuthbert may have been lucky
Out of interest, does anyone know if an out of date photocard is even a problem, given the paper part is valid until you turn 70? I only carry the photo part in my wallet, so this date would be obvious to the gendarme when presented.