Tweedpipe

I've been reading the thread where someone had their builder walk-out on them and left them stranded.

Our hard-luck stories have almost always involved French plumbers. Why is it that generally they appear to be such an unprofessional bunch, that one can rarely rely on?
We have made a habit of having a yearly inspection performed on our heating system, hopefully to maintain it in good condition, ensure it's efficient, and also to prevent any unnecessary hassle from our home insurance policy in the event of a serious problem.
We have an all-gas (propane) system - a Cosmogas model BMS-BS (see photo attached) water-heater which provides hot water for domestic purposes and also underfloor heating to all rooms. It's now 12 years old.
For several years running the system was 'rapidly checked out ' by a local plumber. On questioning him about how we could regulate the temperature in individual rooms, he didn't seem to have a clue so thought we would find someone else the following year.
We found two from Yellow pages, called one and left a message on our needs. Call was never returned.
Called another and made an appointment. We stayed in that day, but he never came, and never called us back to say why.
Called yet another found in Yellow Pages. He did an inspection check & clean, cost was 75€. A week or so later I smelled gas in the garden close to the house. Called the plumber back who checked everything (only removed the cover for access) with a leak-detector but couldn't find anything wrong. He also checked around the gas tank in the garden. For those checks we were invoiced 169€ for approx 50 mins work.
The smell of gas was still apparent in the garden, not daily but often. Over the course of the next few months we called the TotalGas guy to check the propane tank for possible leakage - nothing found. The heating was then tuned off over the next 8 months until late Oct.
As soon as the heating was back on a regular basis I could smell gas again.

Two new plumbers contacted, one didn't return our call, and the other true to French form fixed a day - and didn't turn up! Never heard why.
Contacted yet another, who came beginning of Dec. We said we wanted a general check done, and I mentioned about the gas smell. He did a check & clean of the system, and during the function check noticed that when the flame lit, it was pulsating, that there wasn't complete combustion. Did a further check and found what he referred to as l'ballon was not holding pressure when checked with his hand pump. (He said very few technicians bother to check this).
(Looking at the instruction manual afterwards I believe the component he referred to is probably the vase d'expansion). He said he would have to order it, and would return around the 12th Dec. I added that if he had a problem to give us a call. Not having heard from him we called him back after Christmas. The secretary (his wife) said she didn't really have details of his work-planning because, <quote> "Monsieur tells me nothing!".
We haven't heard from him since! And received no invoice. What an unreliable bunch of French wallies!
I'm now getting a bit of aggro from 'she who should be obeyed', who's saying, "What should we do now".....?
Any comments and/or advice would be appreciated.

bigglesworth

Please don't tell me that!
I have had two heating engineers and plumbers around, another coming this morning to quote for installing balance of central heating, separate devis for utility (w/machine etc) and installing another bathroom. All are French. The two who have been have been very helpful. Admittedly, nothing done yet, but friends around both French and English all say they are very good.

Fingers crossed then!

cuthbert

Just a couple of things unless I'm seriously mistaken the expansion tank has nowt to do with the air fuel mixture, incorrect burning mixture can be easily measured putting a CO/CO2 probe into the flue to measure the exhaust mixture, and is a simple adjustment for any boiler specialist. The expansion tank is just to absorb the pressure increase as your system expands and contracts and normally there is a pressure gauge on it which should stay pretty steady during heating cooling cycle. I would suggest he's seen two different problems?

Balancing radiators isn't as complicated as it sound you can buy either;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dial-surface...6705748&sr=8-4
or;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/magnetic-sur...6705748&sr=8-1
if you have magnetic radiators

you put one on the entry pipe and one on the exit, open the main valve or thermostatic valve fully, and then usually with an allen key you close in the exit valve until you show an 11 degree temperature difference across the radiator. It take a bit of time to do I usually do a day per radiator little tweak every hour or so, but it's not difficult. Hope it helps.

bigglesworth

Cuthbert, I imagine that just about every cack-handed technophobe (of whom I am certainly one) on BE is offering you up a prayer of thanks. I have NEVER been able to balance a radiator before.
Thank you

cuthbert

You're welcome

Tweedpipe

Thanks to both for the feed-back.

Bigglesworth,
You may just strike lucky with your plumber, and other handy-men. I hope so.

Cuthbert,
You provide some good advice. Having no radiators as such I will eventually try the surface pipe thermometer and tweak as appropriate.
I note that the pressure gauge on the system is always steady so you're probably right about the expansion tank not being the culprit.
Again today with the boiler lit I noticed that the flame was constantly pulsating - approx half-second lit, half-second loss etc with the pressure gauge indicating a steady 1.2 bars i.e. well within the secure blue sector. Whatever the cause of the problem, the heating is still very effective with all rooms warm and boiling hot water on tap whenever required.
Should be interesting to hear what The Plumber reckons.

smithyandlisa

Got to agree with Tweedy on this one. We've been here 4 years and I can honestly say that all our experiences have been positive.... except the plumber.

Last Summer, after being here 3 years we decided we really should get the boiler serviced. We have a rad in the study which was only ever lukewarm at the top third, and always stone cold the bottom 2 thirds. We explained that to the plumber who said the system was full of sludge and needed cleaning out. Won't bore you with the details, but a week of toing and froing later, and not a pleasant week I hasten to add, the job was finished.

Everything was exactly the same. The engineer said, no that's as good as it gets, so I called the boss at the office. To his credit, he arrived within 30 minutes and said that radiators only ever warm up in the top third. I asked him then why did the engineer suggest doing the work? Told him that he was talking nonsense and he suggested that perhaps English radiators were different. At that point I suggested that there was no more to be said, and showed them both the door.

2 weeks later we received a bill for the service of the boiler, which we were happy with so we paid, and a bill for around 400€ for the draining and cleaning of rads. I wrote a letter saying that we would not be paying until the job was done properly and he was welcome to return at any time.

That's 18 months ago now. Never heard a peep.

That's a fairly big reputable company with swish offices in town and half a dozen liveried vans, not some backstreet cowboy.

Went to the Mairie and asked for the name of the plumber who does all their work. Great guy.

Bon Courage!

dennerlymum

Funnily enough our experiences have been the opposite; great plumber here but a series of appalling ones in the uk.

One who took over a week and a half to do a 2 DAY job, leaving us with no water all that time and flooding our house 2X. He finally left having dropped a hammer in the new ceramic shower tray and hidden it by covering it with dirt; wouldnt reply to the phone message asking for a replacement but soon turned up when I cancelled the cheque!

The second did a full replumb; inc a new combi boiler. He left, I was ill and when I 'came to' several months later I realised the boiler was continuously firing ; a leak had occurred somewhere... After a thorough search I realised there was indeed a huge leak; the walls of the kitchen were sodden. I called him and he basically said 'tough s**t! Called my insurers in desperation and they were amazing... they fixed the leak under the concrete kitchen floor in the pipe that he hadnt replaced and then evacuated us for a month whilst they dried out the house, replastered the kitchen replaced 2 matresses and redecorated throughout....yes it was that bad!!!

I was terrified of plumbers by the time we got here but we seem to have a good one now.... fingers crossed!!

cuthbert

A bit off topic, but related to the direction this thread is taking and the ongoing rant in a similar thread just a couple of thoughts about the expat community.
I'll be honest, sweeping generalisations of one countries artisans are better than another are usually made as in the cases above of one or two examples in each country being the basis for judging a whole country, and in my opinion do genuine artisans a disservice. We all have horror stories, and a lot of them will be generated by the language barrier, the fact we tend to go with the cheapest contractor and the sad fact that there are always cowboys who will try and rip off those not in the know.

I have a fair bit if experience dealing with all sorts of trades, through work and the renovations I've done on my house and I'm lucky I'm now fluent in French after 11 years. Though I will say I'm currently in a toe to toe head banging match with a builder, and through my experience even though it's like pulling teeth I will get what I want eventually.

Those I feel sorry for are those who do not have my experience and get shafted or feel like they have no recourse and end up in a horrible downward spiral. It's for this reason I started putting posts on this forum, and helping those not in the know and I commend those who tirelessly help to point people in the right direction, even though the question may have been repeated ad nauseam just try not to assume the worst of artisans and fellow contributors to this site. They ain't all the same - just some are

dennerlymum

I agree entirely: my post was to show that poor craftsmen can occur anywhere; not just in France. It is down to bad luck and perhaps some of the reasons you state

smithyandlisa

Hi Cuthbert,

It was certainly not me taking the thread in 'another direction'. I was merely saying that in 4 years, every French tradesman we have used has been brilliant except the plumber. We have never used any ex-pat tradesmen, so I couldn't comment.

cuthbert

Not at all It was a general point, just being in a large expat community I see people generalise all the time about who's bad and who's good, but these are views based on in the end quite a small cross section of artisans.

It's very easy to get a jaded view when it goes against us, and though I missed a comma off in my post above it it was just to say that this forum and others are fantastic places, for those not in the know, to gain access to a wider point of view and knowledge without some of the bias and baggage that comes with it; in the end I commend those of you who are here to answer sometimes daft questions from those not in the know.

bigglesworth

Cuthbert, I second that entirely.
Usually, over the past four years, I have been the one asking the questions. On the rare occasions when someone needs information, help, advice that i feel qualified to give, I remember with gratitude all those who have helped me.

Particularly a gentleman called Bill who lives in Southern Spain, who I swear has sufficient knowledge in arcane areas that I would not be surprised to discover he has built his own nuclear reactor out of spare parts.
But many others on BE, just like him, continue to patiently answer questions that must seem blindingly obvious.

smithyandlisa

I think I've asked plenty of those blindingly obvious ones!!

Tweedpipe

Just to bump this query up and hopefully get some feedback from the forum's specialist plumber.

Our problem still remains, as the last plumber who was in attendance has still failed to make further contact.
Contacted another early last week, make an appointment but heard nothing more.
This morning called yet another who says he will try and come by later today.
I no longer cross fingers, I think making voodoo-doll effigies of local plumbers and probing with needles may be far more effective.
A suivre......