Coffeebeans

Selling home after 23 years. Hope to buy a small property UK to rent out and give me an income to live on in France. Will rent initially in France but want to buy where there are milder einterd and warm summers sue to health. Divorced, retired, no children , one dog. Want rural but close enough for basic amenities. Have car. On disability/care Gov benefit which I want to give up when I move and be totally independent. Anyone out there know of risks, taxes and who to ask for advice.

EuroTrash

Hello, welcome to the forum.
I"m a bit confused by the title, you say it's about the pitfalls of buying a property as a second home but am I right in thinking the house in France will be your main home?

All the info on taxes and expenses of living in France is easily findable on the internet, but bear in mind that France is revolting at present so it's likely that there will be some changes to the tax system in the near future, possibly quite radical changes. But basically, at present - taxe foncière which is a property tax paid by the property owner, taxe d'habitation which is a property tax paid by the person living in (or potentially living in) the property (for residents there are potential reductions and exemptions on taxe d'habitation depending on personal circumstances), rubbish collection, TV tax if applicable. For residents, the main expense you have in France that you don't have in the UK is healthcare costs because healthcare is not "free" here; how much you will have to pay will depend on various factors to do with your personal circumstances but also including Brexit. Beyond that, there's utilities, insurances, income tax if applicable, the usual. So that's taxes and costs. Not sure what you mean by "risks".
Hope that helps, you will find more details on all these things online but if you have any specific questions, folk on here will be happy to help.

Coffeebeans

Thank you. Sorry about the subject title being confusing. As I haven't sold my home yet (going on in January) I want to divide my time between the two countries so haven't really decided what is a main residence . Is making that decision a requirement? I've googled everything to try and get the answers to questions but thought a forum would give me the small print, answers from the "horse's mouth" so to speak.

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
Not sure what you mean by "2nd home" in the title. The property in the UK that you hope to buy and rent out wouldn't be considered as your principal home if you're living in France and intending to be (tax-)resident here.
Take a look in the "Renting" thread in the Read-Me: Moving to France FAQs above. Most French landlords require justification of a regular monthly income 3-4 times the rent, so you must do your sums carefully if your Pension isn't sufficient. Other threads (e.g. growing old in France...) will give info from experience.
Do you have a UK State Pension? In which case you must ask the DWP for an S1 form which will get you into the French Social Security System. You would have to budget for a "Mutuelle" (top-up insurance) to make up the 30% that the S.S. doesn't reimburse... If you aren't in receipt of a State Pension, you'll be considered as "inactive" and you'll have to take out private healthcare insurance from Day 1 before you're eligible to enter the System. Resources and healthcare coverage are also conditions for residency....
Whatever you decide about exporting your present benefits (and whether this is possible), bear in mind that you'll need the same "care" in France and it's unlikely that you'll get it free, at least at the beginning, and even then you'd have a lot of bureaucracy to wade through. You should choose a rural town where there isn't a "medical desert" and members all over France can give advice on the situation in their areas. The Languedoc might tick the boxes weatherwise (and even then, there's been an awful lot of Spring/Autumn rain and cold Winters these last few years and long heatwaves in the Summer), but G.P.s and specialists are few and far between, except in the main towns.
As for Taxes, the UK State Pension is taxed at source, but must still be declared annually to the French Tax Office at the same time as declaring your world-wide income (e.g. rentals, dividends, etc...). If you buy property in France, you'd have to pay Taxe Foncière (propery tax) and, at the moment, every one, including tenants, pays "Taxe d'Habitation" (occupancy tax) on their dwelling place. As you don't have direct heirs, your indirect ones (siblings, etc...) will have to pay a relatively high rate of Taxe de Succession (Inheritance Tax) on your property, going up to 60% of its value for heirs who aren't legally related.
These are the main "pitfalls", but fore-warned is fore-armed!
Give a bit more information on yourself (e.g. age and your level of French), and others will come along with their views. You've come to the right place for advice!
P.S. Post typed before seeing ET's post!

dmu

Your "main residence" will depend on how long you spend in either country and it's the Tax Authorities who decide. But if you rent out your property in the UK, you wouldn't have residential status in the UK...
If you're "Resident" in the UK, you would still have all the Taxes, Utilities, Insurance, etc... here as mentioned by ET to pay, and any health problems would be covered by your EHIC.
HTH

EuroTrash

Which country you are tax resident in is a crucial issue, but it's not a decision that you make yourself. Each country has its own set of residence criteria to establish who is classed as resident and who isn't, and if there is any doubt then it's decided by the tax treaty between the two countries involved. So in your case - France has certain residence criteria, and the UK has different criteria. In most cases, having looked at both sets of criteria it's obvious where you are tax resident. However, sometimes you find that both countries would consider you resident, and in that case you would look at the tax treaty. Residency needs to be established because it makes a difference to how you declare your income and where you pay your tax, which country funds your healthcare, and various other rights and obligations.

So whilst you can't decide where you'd like to be classed as resident, in a sense you can, because the decision is made on factors that you are in control of, such as where you spend your time and where your centre of economic interests is. So it's possible to plan your lifestyle to achieve the outcome you want.

But, bear in mind that after Brexit, as a British citizen you will eventually no longer have freedom of movement so if you're not already classed as resident in France before the eventual cut-off date, you will probably be restricted to visits of 3 months maximum in France. If you want to visit for longer, or move here to live, you will presumably need to apply for the appropriate visa.

cyrian

Hi
I think that it is a good idea to rent even for the longer term.
Renting is much more common in France than in the UK and you don't need to pay one of the two property taxes.
If you change your mind about location or if you have had enough of France then you just end your rental and go home.
If you rent, you also avoid issues for your relatives when your estate is wound up.
Another member on here recently used Credit Agricole Britline as a deposit guarantor for renting.
HTH

Coffeebeans

Thank you Cyrian for some though provoking advice long term. With the B word being so unstable (putting that mildly) I started to look for rental agents. Do you have any that you would recommend? Most of the agents I'm looking to buy through do not have a letting department. Many thanks. It's early days for me but I'm determined to leave the UK for warmer climes.

cyrian

Have a search online on www.pagesjaunes.fr for agent immobilier and use the name of the town or post code.
I think that all the estate agents I come across are around 50% sales - 50$ letting.
Most estate agents are local to your chosen area.
HTH

Tweedpipe

Here's my few cents.
Indeed you've been given some excellent thought-provoking advise, and mentioned yourself the B word. However there's one more word that should be considered equally, or even far more important. The F word. France!
To say there is unrest here at the moment would be a gross understatement. I've lived here for many years, left and returned several times for professional reasons, and seen more than a few problems. Our son who was born here, couldn't get away quickly enough after experiencing the series of political unrest and general strikes in 1995 which paralyzed the country's infrastructure, especially the anti-system demonstrations where students burnt and picketed lycees all over the region, especially his - which he never forgot. At the time it was the largest social movement in France since the May '68 uprising.
Although in principal I support the GJ movement, the social unrest and extreme violence we've been seeing and experiencing over the last 3 weeks - not only in Paris - is alarming, with students now joining the movement and participating in large numbers, blocking, picketing and again ransacking schools and lycees.
Imho those who have recently made a permanent move to France must surely be questioning their own sanity, and those contemplating a move should seriously be aware of these extremely troubled times.
Sure, in due course many of the immediate problems will be temporarilyresolved, but France no longer holds the fascination it did for me when I decided to make this my permanent home. And as I started to apply for permanent residence many months ago, I too am questioning my own sanity - and the B and F words.

Coffeebeans

Thank you for your concerns. Our world is becoming more and more unstable. The decision to move again and live overseas is for peace and warmer annual weather. Climate change has also got to be put into this mix. I've lived and worked through many uprisings (Hong Kong Tiaman Square) In Bermuda the assassination of the Bermuda Governor followed by weeks of rampaging Bermudians, burning down houses, being caught up in 7th July London Tube Bombing so was hoping for less activity by living in a rural part of France to start writing my memoirs. I appreciate your warnings but where is safe these days? and I'm not being flippant.... It just seems to be a reality. Is rural France effected by students or just within towns and cities where students congregate?

EuroTrash

+1.
What the French are doing to their own country right now, is hard/impossible for a British brain to wrap itself around. Even after you've lived here for a while and you thought you were beginning to understand the French mindset.
I've abandoned things I had planned to do this week and next because they involved going places by car and being in big cities, and I didn't want to take the risk of getting caught up in anything. So no Christmas shopping trip this year, and try to sort admin issues out by phone rather than in person. I'm not finding France an entirely comfortable place to be just now.

But, 1968 - 2018 - 2068? hopefully once it's over, that'll be it for another generation.

@ Coffeebeans - the students are a mere sideshow. The problem is that the Gilets Jaunes movement has unleashed the casseurs and after last Saturday in Paris they've got the taste for blood.

Moses2013

Of course some will say France is a huge country and other countries have the same problems, but I get your point. I live in West of Ireland and have seen an increasing number of French people move over here in recent years. People complain here too (weather, housing etc.) but most French living here say their country has gone downhill and they are far better off away from France. I suppose a person who doesn't need employment and can live far from the larger cities wouldn't notice the problems that much. The OP mentions climate, but what area in France are we talking about?

Coffeebeans

I see. Timing hasn't been my strongest point in this case then? I'm not in a rush, just impatient to get my new life started. Really appreciate the feedback. Thank you.

EuroTrash

Suggest you keep an eye on the French newspapers online to gauge which way the wind's blowing.

But I think you have to accept that a certain amount of disruption is the norm in France, although it can be frustrating. The last two occasions when I've needed to go back to the UK for a particular event, once in 2016 for a friend's funeral and once this year for a happier event, both coincided with rail strikes. On the first occasion I got to the funeral OK but coming back, my train from Paris and the next one were cancelled, the one after that ran and was packed tighter than a tin of sardines, had to stand up all the way for a 3 hour journey, the air was stifling and people were fainting, wasn't far off myself. On the next occasion it was impossible to get to Paris by scheduled transport so I ended up planning an immensely complicated route that took over 24 hours end to end and involved using Blablacar, amazingly and against the odds it worked and I got back on time.