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Old Jan 30th 2015 | 7:17 am
  #16  
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Default Re: P85

I agree with CS and IVV (again!) - I've never heard of pension income being declared under micro BNC. I don't think you can. Micro BNC is a simplified tax régime for businesses, and the 34 per cent you refer to is the forfaitaire allowance for business expenses that you are given, ie your tax liability is on the 66 per cent of your turnover that is reckoned to be profit. As opposed to a réel régime where you claim your actual business expenses against turnover. But, I don't see how claiming an allowance for business expenses relates to receiving a pension.

There are laid down rules in the tax treaty that dictate which country each type of pension is taxable in. A UK state retirement pension for instance is taxable in France if you live in France. I have a notion that NHS pensions are a bit complicated and some are taxable in the UK and some aren't, but I could be mixing that up with local government pensions. However, if your particular type of pension is taxable in the UK then it is, and being resident in France won't change that. Of course if you have other income, then it could make a difference where you're taxed. If perchance your pension isn't taxable in the UK then the main factor that will make a difference is that in France tax is calculated per household, on the total household income, and the allowance is calculated on the number of persons in the household, so if you're a single person household in France you'll be at a slight disadvantage I think. The tax threshold for a single person in France is below 10 000€, whereas I believe that in the UK it's £10,000 or over? The barème is here: Le nouveau barème 2015 de l'impôt sur le revenu 2014

If you're legally separated I imagine that's as good as divorced for HMRC - surely the whole point of a legal separation is that you no longer wish to share the same marital home, so I don't see how HMRC can insist that you continue living together just so they can tax you.
 
Old Jan 30th 2015 | 7:25 am
  #17  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas
This doesn't sound correct to me skipsych. I think the micro-BNC regime only applies if you work or have worked in France. I would expect your pension to be taxed in the same way as any other UK government pension which is that the UK will tax it and no further tax on it should be due in France. Other members may have more direct experience of this situation though.
I know that doctors NhS pensions are not looked upon as a standard government pension and can be taxed in France, I also know of other doctors who have been here for some time have their NHS Pension taxed at a beneficial rate, I assume this is through the micro-BNC system but I may be wrong.
Thanks anyway for your kind and helpful input
 
Old Jan 30th 2015 | 7:35 am
  #18  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
I agree with CS and IVV (again!) - I've never heard of pension income being declared under micro BNC. I don't think you can. Micro BNC is a simplified tax régime for businesses, and the 34 per cent you refer to is the forfaitaire allowance for business expenses that you are given, ie your tax liability is on the 66 per cent of your turnover that is reckoned to be profit. As opposed to a réel régime where you claim your actual business expenses against turnover. But, I don't see how claiming an allowance for business expenses relates to receiving a pension.

There are laid down rules in the tax treaty that dictate which country each type of pension is taxable in. A UK state retirement pension for instance is taxable in France if you live in France. I have a notion that NHS pensions are a bit complicated and some are taxable in the UK and some aren't, but I could be mixing that up with local government pensions. However, if your particular type of pension is taxable in the UK then it is, and being resident in France won't change that. Of course if you have other income, then it could make a difference where you're taxed. If perchance your pension isn't taxable in the UK then the main factor that will make a difference is that in France tax is calculated per household, on the total household income, and the allowance is calculated on the number of persons in the household, so if you're a single person household in France you'll be at a slight disadvantage I think. The tax threshold for a single person in France is below 10 000€, whereas I believe that in the UK it's £10,000 or over? The barème is here: Le nouveau barème 2015 de l'impôt sur le revenu 2014

If you're legally separated I imagine that's as good as divorced for HMRC - surely the whole point of a legal separation is that you no longer wish to share the same marital home, so I don't see how HMRC can insist that you continue living together just so they can tax you.
Thanks for this, I do know that NHS pensions can be taxed in France as I know other doctors who have their NHS pension taxed here at a substantially reduced rate, I guess it doesn't involve the Micro-BNC arrangements. I will need to get more info from my doctor friends.
Thanks so much for your kind help in this matter.
 
Old Jan 30th 2015 | 7:47 am
  #19  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by skipsych
I know that doctors NhS pensions are not looked upon as a standard government pension and can be taxed in France, I also know of other doctors who have been here for some time have their NHS Pension taxed at a beneficial rate, I assume this is through the micro-BNC system but I may be wrong.
Thanks anyway for your kind and helpful input
Weelll, I think you'll need to ask your pension provider about this. I won't link to other forums but if you google you'll find a number of comments from people in receipt of NHS pensions living in France who say their pensions are taxed in the UK. Maybe doctors' pensions are different, but...

Whilst googling I also found this little reference:
Why do people transfer their NHS Pension Overseas?
"Income tax – The NHS pension is taxed at source. If for example, if sometime in future you were to move to a location world wide that has zero income tax (i,e Dubai/UAE), you would still be taxed at UK rates in the UK."

Definitely you need to dig deeper. QROPS?
 
Old Jan 30th 2015 | 5:58 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
Weelll, I think you'll need to ask your pension provider about this. I won't link to other forums but if you google you'll find a number of comments from people in receipt of NHS pensions living in France who say their pensions are taxed in the UK. Maybe doctors' pensions are different, but...

Whilst googling I also found this little reference:
Why do people transfer their NHS Pension Overseas?
"Income tax – The NHS pension is taxed at source. If for example, if sometime in future you were to move to a location world wide that has zero income tax (i,e Dubai/UAE), you would still be taxed at UK rates in the UK."

Definitely you need to dig deeper. QROPS?
That's a very useful link that ET has found for you #skipsych - QROPS is a more tax efficient solution but, unlike your NHS pension, QROPS may not produce the guaranteed income which your current pension will provide.

I really don't understand how anyone with a public service pension can be paid gross, let alone declare it in France as business income, but if you find this view is incorrect do please post back here and let us know.
 
Old Jan 30th 2015 | 7:55 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by EuroTrash
Weelll, I think you'll need to ask your pension provider about this. I won't link to other forums but if you google you'll find a number of comments from people in receipt of NHS pensions living in France who say their pensions are taxed in the UK. Maybe doctors' pensions are different, but...

Whilst googling I also found this little reference:
Why do people transfer their NHS Pension Overseas?
"Income tax – The NHS pension is taxed at source. If for example, if sometime in future you were to move to a location world wide that has zero income tax (i,e Dubai/UAE), you would still be taxed at UK rates in the UK."

Definitely you need to dig deeper. QROPS?
Very recently my daughter left her employer and was sent a letter informing her that her pension fund was standing at £x. She asked for a transfer value with a view to moving to a SIPP. The transfer value came back at about 70% of the previously quoted figure.
If you have a defined benefits scheme then there isn't usually a specific pot of money behind that - it works more like an insurance policy. Because there is no defined pot of money, you may find that the amount of money that you would be offered if moving elsewhere would be much less than would be required to fund the benefits offered by the scheme. i.e. you would only be able to buy a pension of 35% of salary vs a pension of 50% of salary.
Someone approaching retirement would have insufficient years for the fund to grow to the required level.
 
Old Jan 30th 2015 | 8:14 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by cyrian
Very recently my daughter left her employer and was sent a letter informing her that her pension fund was standing at £x. She asked for a transfer value with a view to moving to a SIPP. The transfer value came back at about 70% of the previously quoted figure.
If you have a defined benefits scheme then there isn't usually a specific pot of money behind that - it works more like an insurance policy. Because there is no defined pot of money, you may find that the amount of money that you would be offered if moving elsewhere would be much less than would be required to fund the benefits offered by the scheme. i.e. you would only be able to buy a pension of 35% of salary vs a pension of 50% of salary.
Someone approaching retirement would have insufficient years for the fund to grow to the required level.
Good point Cyrian and it seems there are other factors taken into account:-

How is the Cash Equivalent Transfer Value (CETV) payment calculated?

This is calculated by converting the value of your NHS pension rights into a current cash value using factors supplied by the Government Actuary Department (GAD). These factors will vary according to your age, gender and marital status. The calculation may also take account of the current level of the stock market.


This comes from the BMA website The page you requested could not be processed
 
Old Feb 6th 2015 | 9:46 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: P85

Originally Posted by skipsych
not sure i am asking this in the right place. recently moved to France. have got downloaded my P 85 form. trying to fill in question 17 which asks 'will you (or your spouse,civil partner or someone you are living withas a spouse or partner) have a home in the UK while you are abroad?' my wife and I have legally separated with a legal deed which gives her total ownership of the house in UK. i am not sure what to answer yes or no? please help
Where did you download the form? All I can find is the online form available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-tax-right-p85
 

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