Our dilemna
Feb 2nd 2010, 8:43 am
#1
Senior member
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Paris
Posts: 835
Our dilemna
I'm not really expecting anyone to solve this dilemna but thought I would post as others must have faced similar decision points.
I am 2 years into a 3 year contract in Paris. I enjoy the work, the expat package they give me is lucrative, we like living where we do and feel we have settled nicely. However, I am already being asked by my bosses what my plans are. Basically we have these choices:
-Look for a new role, or a continuation of my current role, in Paris. This would result in significant change though. No more expat package, no more tax breaks, no more rent paid by my employer. We would be facing a huge drop in income (c60%), would have to move to a cheaper suburb from our employer funded house to an apartment, would have to sell our house in the UK etc. Also longer term we would have to face the fact that whereas we could afford to buy a nice 4 bed detached house in a country village on my salary in the UK, in Paris local salaries are pitiful relative to property costs and our budget would only just allow us to buy a 2 bedroom apartment in a very average Paris suburb - not a good prospect as we have 2 young kids. So long term its quite a depressing outlook if we stay in Paris, even though we really like living in France. A big frustration really - if Paris property prices were more afffordable we have no issue, but they are not, they are rediculous.
- Look for a role back in my company's UK business. They are obliged under my contract to find me a position. Big risk though as major cost cutting is happening, everyone is fed up with the place, not a nice atmosphere and rumours are rife that the business may be sold if a buyer can be found. Also my wife does not particularly want to return to the UK.
- Look for role in my company somewhere else. My wife is from Eastern Europe and would like to move back there (Prague specifically). Not sure it would be the best move for my career as we only have very small operations there. Language would be a huge barrier. Do I want to live in Prague? Undecided. On the plus side they want to grow the business and could probably be persuaded to take on an expat with my kind of background on a reasonable expat package. I think I could sell it to the powers that be. again though, it would seem like another temporary move and with our eldest now at school age I question the wisdom of such a move.
So, as you can see, we are wrestling with some challenging decisions. The idea of living elsewhere in France is one that has appeal but has no practical application as I am a UK chartered accountant who does not speak a lot of French and my work is very specialised. Large Paris based internationals would be my only possible employer in France. Also I have a fair amount tied up in share options that mature in 2013, 2014 and 2015 and I would lose this if I left my company. I like my company anyway so don't really want to find a new employer.
What to do, what to do. The easy option for now is ignore the question for another 6 months!
I am 2 years into a 3 year contract in Paris. I enjoy the work, the expat package they give me is lucrative, we like living where we do and feel we have settled nicely. However, I am already being asked by my bosses what my plans are. Basically we have these choices:
-Look for a new role, or a continuation of my current role, in Paris. This would result in significant change though. No more expat package, no more tax breaks, no more rent paid by my employer. We would be facing a huge drop in income (c60%), would have to move to a cheaper suburb from our employer funded house to an apartment, would have to sell our house in the UK etc. Also longer term we would have to face the fact that whereas we could afford to buy a nice 4 bed detached house in a country village on my salary in the UK, in Paris local salaries are pitiful relative to property costs and our budget would only just allow us to buy a 2 bedroom apartment in a very average Paris suburb - not a good prospect as we have 2 young kids. So long term its quite a depressing outlook if we stay in Paris, even though we really like living in France. A big frustration really - if Paris property prices were more afffordable we have no issue, but they are not, they are rediculous.
- Look for a role back in my company's UK business. They are obliged under my contract to find me a position. Big risk though as major cost cutting is happening, everyone is fed up with the place, not a nice atmosphere and rumours are rife that the business may be sold if a buyer can be found. Also my wife does not particularly want to return to the UK.
- Look for role in my company somewhere else. My wife is from Eastern Europe and would like to move back there (Prague specifically). Not sure it would be the best move for my career as we only have very small operations there. Language would be a huge barrier. Do I want to live in Prague? Undecided. On the plus side they want to grow the business and could probably be persuaded to take on an expat with my kind of background on a reasonable expat package. I think I could sell it to the powers that be. again though, it would seem like another temporary move and with our eldest now at school age I question the wisdom of such a move.
So, as you can see, we are wrestling with some challenging decisions. The idea of living elsewhere in France is one that has appeal but has no practical application as I am a UK chartered accountant who does not speak a lot of French and my work is very specialised. Large Paris based internationals would be my only possible employer in France. Also I have a fair amount tied up in share options that mature in 2013, 2014 and 2015 and I would lose this if I left my company. I like my company anyway so don't really want to find a new employer.
What to do, what to do. The easy option for now is ignore the question for another 6 months!
Feb 2nd 2010, 8:53 am
#2
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: 32 Gers ; Between Toulouse and Auch
Posts: 1,395
Re: Our dilemna
Hi there 
it seems to be a common problem here in france and I imagine elsewhere. My hubby too faces this dilemma; in the end we have bought , so could not stand the 60% drop in income, so he left and sought contract work elswhere in Europe, returning home once a month. Not ideal, but we are trying bit by bit to restructure our finances so he can seek permanent work here in france eventually....
Good luck with your decision making
it seems to be a common problem here in france and I imagine elsewhere. My hubby too faces this dilemma; in the end we have bought , so could not stand the 60% drop in income, so he left and sought contract work elswhere in Europe, returning home once a month. Not ideal, but we are trying bit by bit to restructure our finances so he can seek permanent work here in france eventually....
Good luck with your decision making
Feb 2nd 2010, 9:31 am
#3
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,549
Re: Our dilemna
I'm sorry to hear that... the time has just flown by hasn't it! I understand the desire to put your head in the sand, but those six months will continue to pass by rather quickly, so definitely better to have a plan of action.
There doesn't seem to be a win-win situation, and every solution is a compromise. I don't think Paris will ever be cheap, but if you could cope with a smaller property (only the millionaries seem to have anything that might amount to ample space), you might want to consider another suburb like Bois-Colombes, which is nice (though no Vésinet!) and has better access to the centre of Paris.
Is there another French city you could work out of? I'm sure places like Lyon or Toulouse are much cheaper and have nicer summers. It would also be a shame if your children missed out on a chance to speak French fluently.
In your shoes Prague would scare me. Beautiful city to visit, and no doubt live in, but the culture differences seem greater, and mastering the language would be much more difficult. (Didn't you once live in Prague in the past?) I think I would find it too alienating.
How about going back to the UK until your shares mature, and then if you're looking to be in a better position, moving back to Paris? Or rent a smaller place in Paris for a few years, and then look at the possiblity of purchasing when you feel a little more certain about things? I live in a very nice part of Paris, nice historic apartment etc.. but we only have 53m2 for the two of us and a baby (and a cat)... I don't mind being cramped for a few years until I can improve my situation... It's not exactly 'roughing' it, but sometimes life involves compromises.
There doesn't seem to be a win-win situation, and every solution is a compromise. I don't think Paris will ever be cheap, but if you could cope with a smaller property (only the millionaries seem to have anything that might amount to ample space), you might want to consider another suburb like Bois-Colombes, which is nice (though no Vésinet!) and has better access to the centre of Paris.
Is there another French city you could work out of? I'm sure places like Lyon or Toulouse are much cheaper and have nicer summers. It would also be a shame if your children missed out on a chance to speak French fluently.
In your shoes Prague would scare me. Beautiful city to visit, and no doubt live in, but the culture differences seem greater, and mastering the language would be much more difficult. (Didn't you once live in Prague in the past?) I think I would find it too alienating.
How about going back to the UK until your shares mature, and then if you're looking to be in a better position, moving back to Paris? Or rent a smaller place in Paris for a few years, and then look at the possiblity of purchasing when you feel a little more certain about things? I live in a very nice part of Paris, nice historic apartment etc.. but we only have 53m2 for the two of us and a baby (and a cat)... I don't mind being cramped for a few years until I can improve my situation... It's not exactly 'roughing' it, but sometimes life involves compromises.
Last edited by G-J-B; Feb 2nd 2010 at 9:35 am.
Feb 2nd 2010, 11:12 am
#4
Senior member
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Paris
Posts: 835
Re: Our dilemna
I'm sorry to hear that... the time has just flown by hasn't it! I understand the desire to put your head in the sand, but those six months will continue to pass by rather quickly, so definitely better to have a plan of action.
There doesn't seem to be a win-win situation, and every solution is a compromise. I don't think Paris will ever be cheap, but if you could cope with a smaller property (only the millionaries seem to have anything that might amount to ample space), you might want to consider another suburb like Bois-Colombes, which is nice (though no Vésinet!) and has better access to the centre of Paris.
Is there another French city you could work out of? I'm sure places like Lyon or Toulouse are much cheaper and have nicer summers. It would also be a shame if your children missed out on a chance to speak French fluently.
In your shoes Prague would scare me. Beautiful city to visit, and no doubt live in, but the culture differences seem greater, and mastering the language would be much more difficult. (Didn't you once live in Prague in the past?) I think I would find it too alienating.
How about going back to the UK until your shares mature, and then if you're looking to be in a better position, moving back to Paris? Or rent a smaller place in Paris for a few years, and then look at the possiblity of purchasing when you feel a little more certain about things? I live in a very nice part of Paris, nice historic apartment etc.. but we only have 53m2 for the two of us and a baby (and a cat)... I don't mind being cramped for a few years until I can improve my situation... It's not exactly 'roughing' it, but sometimes life involves compromises.
There doesn't seem to be a win-win situation, and every solution is a compromise. I don't think Paris will ever be cheap, but if you could cope with a smaller property (only the millionaries seem to have anything that might amount to ample space), you might want to consider another suburb like Bois-Colombes, which is nice (though no Vésinet!) and has better access to the centre of Paris.
Is there another French city you could work out of? I'm sure places like Lyon or Toulouse are much cheaper and have nicer summers. It would also be a shame if your children missed out on a chance to speak French fluently.
In your shoes Prague would scare me. Beautiful city to visit, and no doubt live in, but the culture differences seem greater, and mastering the language would be much more difficult. (Didn't you once live in Prague in the past?) I think I would find it too alienating.
How about going back to the UK until your shares mature, and then if you're looking to be in a better position, moving back to Paris? Or rent a smaller place in Paris for a few years, and then look at the possiblity of purchasing when you feel a little more certain about things? I live in a very nice part of Paris, nice historic apartment etc.. but we only have 53m2 for the two of us and a baby (and a cat)... I don't mind being cramped for a few years until I can improve my situation... It's not exactly 'roughing' it, but sometimes life involves compromises.
You are right of course. Currently we have the luxury of a no comprimise situation and we need compromise somewhere. One solution I will explore is whether I can get a new role in Paris that would allow home working for part of the week. If I could do that then living out past Versailles, where house prices drop significantly, would be less of an issue.
Feb 2nd 2010, 2:17 pm
#5
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,549
Re: Our dilemna
If you think you could eventually cope with the language, I'm sure Prague is a nice place to live (asides from cold winters).
Bilingual at three - I must brush up on my French and get a headstart on my son!
If you don't mind the commute, you'll certainly have plenty of options open to you beyond Versailles, though I hope you wouldn't find it too bland by comparison. You could always move out near Disneyland - your daughter would love you even more!
Bilingual at three - I must brush up on my French and get a headstart on my son!
If you don't mind the commute, you'll certainly have plenty of options open to you beyond Versailles, though I hope you wouldn't find it too bland by comparison. You could always move out near Disneyland - your daughter would love you even more!
Feb 3rd 2010, 5:16 pm
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: From Yorkshire to Paris, the long way round via Michigan.
Posts: 31
Re: Our dilemna
Can probably only echo what others have said and good luck with the decision, if France really is where you want to settle the home working route deserves alot of investigation as I see what you mean by the prices around Paris, and here in the western 'burbs. The compromise on the financially lucrative expat merry go round is precisely that, its a merry go round.. but if the children are still young would there be any other options apart from UK or Prague ? Always time to come back to Paris later ?
Feb 5th 2010, 4:24 pm
#7
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Palaja, near Carcassonne, Department of Aude, France
Posts: 518
Re: Our dilemna
Have you thought about Côte d'Azur?
With your background you may well find something interesting in one of the companies in Sophia Antipolis (France's Silicon Valley).
Here's a list of all companies - many of them worldwide.
Why not scroll through them - perhaps you'll find inspiration..
http://www.sophia-antipolis.net/uk/p...entreprise.php
Here are some photos to give an idea of the kind of location and businesses
http://www.sophia-antipolis.net/uk/p...ototheque.html
The top view shows Nice (with its international airport - second in France) in the background.
(I was with Amadeus - scroll down - for 9 years before retirement)
With your background you may well find something interesting in one of the companies in Sophia Antipolis (France's Silicon Valley).
Here's a list of all companies - many of them worldwide.
Why not scroll through them - perhaps you'll find inspiration..
http://www.sophia-antipolis.net/uk/p...entreprise.php
Here are some photos to give an idea of the kind of location and businesses
http://www.sophia-antipolis.net/uk/p...ototheque.html
The top view shows Nice (with its international airport - second in France) in the background.
(I was with Amadeus - scroll down - for 9 years before retirement)
Last edited by Roger O; Feb 5th 2010 at 4:31 pm.
Feb 5th 2010, 10:04 pm
#8
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 220
Re: Our dilemna
My son in Sweden, had exactly the same problem as yourselves, but no kids.
They decided to stay, take the pay hit and buy a flat. As he was on a good expat salary, flat paid for, ect. He managed to save enough to buy the flat with a small morgage.
Your happy with the Company you work for, and shame to loose those future options.
Better the devil you know.
They decided to stay, take the pay hit and buy a flat. As he was on a good expat salary, flat paid for, ect. He managed to save enough to buy the flat with a small morgage.
Your happy with the Company you work for, and shame to loose those future options.
Better the devil you know.
