atlasthemonk

I have been talking about retiring to a warmer climate for some time now, and have been asking my daughters for their opinions. . One loves France and insists I move there, the other has a notion of a large garden with orange trees. Is there any areas in France that grow sweet oranges.

dmu

Hi, Google or the like is your friend! A quick search found this site, among others.

https://www.aujardin.info/fiches/cul...mes-france.php

You would be limited to the Riviera, which is very expensive, or a few "micro-climates" along the Med and Atlantic coasts.
More importantly, do you speak French? Apart from one daughter's idea to move to France because she loves the country (does she actually live here or just comes on holiday?), you'd have more choice of locations in Spain, for example, with more English-speaking "expat" areas if you don't speak the language.
Wherever you choose to relocate, you should take into account the nearest airport for visits to and by family.
If you intend to retire to a "warmer climate", you must imagine yourself in 15-20 years and ask how you and your family would cope when you are "elderly" (and how your family would cope with your death and Succesion issues. Not a pleasant subject to think about now, but many retiree expats forget that they won't be fit and healthy later on....
Apart from the orange tree question, hope that the unasked-for info gives you food for thought!!

Moses2013

As dmu pointed out, there's probably more to consider. We only have a smaller place with garden across the border from France, but you would be limited when it comes to growing citrus outside when you look at hardiness zones. But there are plenty of other fruit trees you can grow outside and micro climates exist.

Tweedpipe

There are already some good replies here, and I thought I'd add my few euros-worth.
Many living in France are already aware of the Menton Fete du Citron/ Lemon Festival, and for those who aren't, it's an annual carnival held in the Alpes Maritime Dpt on the Cote d'Azur, quite close to Monaco.
I've never been one for carnivals or the like, and when we were invited down to Menton some years ago to share an appartment with family members during the festival season I immediately declined. When asked why, my reply was the same as that to visit Las Vegas, "No, places like that hold little interest for me!" However, I've since seen the light, both at Menton and Vegas!
We agreed to share the accomodation in Menton that year, and took in the marvellous festival, and visits to surrounding places of interest, especially to explore Monaco where the Grimaldi Auto museum and Oceanographic Museum/Aquarium had long held a fascination for me.
The Menton Fete du Citron is a truly wonderful, one of a kind spectacle, held mid Feb to early March. Something not to be missed for those living in France and well worth visiting from overseas as it's such a unique experience. Link HERE.
YTube: 'Fete du Citron/Zitronenfest Menton 2019' and 'Zitronenfest - Menton' for interesting clips.

May contain nuts

Carnivals leave me cold - I think you have to be brought up in that culture. When the Fêtes de Bayonne rumbles around each year (last Wednesday in July for 5 days), we head inland up in the hills for some sanity.

In recent years, around 1.3 million visitors have come for the 5 days of the Fêtes - in a town just shy of 50,000 - and after our first year, we decided never again. We also live 5 mins walk (ie, well within hearing range) of the bullring - and that's another reason to get out of Dodge. Parking is difficult at the best of times - during the Fêtes, it's impossible. It's right up there with Naples for creative parking - you see cars parked on roundabouts, on central reservations, in all kinds of bizarre locations where you wouldn't dream of parking. Plus people pitch tents in town on pavements etc etc. Many sleep in their cars. I think it must be something in the Latin / Basque / culture du Sud that enables them to morph into an instant party animal in less time taken for a fast car to go from 0-60.

As for Las Vegas - in my time in the UK military we had regular detachments to Las Vegas for exercises. I managed to steer clear of attending - and having heard the subsequent stories that filtered back, I was more than happy to have missed out on the 'opportunity'.

No criticism of you implied or intended Tp, we're all different.

Sorry for the thread drift!

atlasthemonk

Thank you all for your replies...much appreciated. The climate map speaks volumes to me. As i am looking for a large garden space, I would be on the edge or away from the expat community so the language would be a problem no matter which country I choose. Do you consider southern France to be more of a problem than other European countries.

Moses2013

I suppose it depends how you define large garden. Since I don't live in France and only own a holiday home across the border in Spain, I'm probably not as qualified and it's only my opinion and that of people I know from France. Like anywhere it all comes down to budget and problems exist in every country. The wealthy person living in a mansion near St Tropez will have a different life than the unemployed person in Marseille. But I would say that when it comes to language, France can be a lot tougher than let's say parts of Spain/Portugal if you only speak English. Most I know who ended up happy in France really love the culture and speak French. I usually drive down past Perpignan which is around 1 1/2 hours drive from where we are and am always glad to cross the border, mainly because I don't speak French and feel more welcome further down. Equally I can also understand why many would want to avoid the typical Full English Breakfast parts of Spain. For me it was more the balance of climate, access, price and scenery. In 10 minutes I can be in the most Catalan village you can find, or be in a town full of tourists. At least I know I have the choice.

scrubbedexpat056

atlasthemonk, it may be a small point, but be aware that you will be paying taxe fonciere, a kind of council tax, on the large garden. It's a lower rate than the house, but it's still there. Just remember to budget for it when costing potential houses you find. It's not always stated in the particulars, we had to ask.

dmu

An important point, as a large garden increases the "rentable value" of a property and the annual Taxe Foncière (Property Tax) must be budgeted (together with the Taxe d'Habitation (Occupany Tax). In Southern France these will amount to several hundreds of euros per month. You can ask vendors how much they pay annually for both Taxes.....
Sorry to harp on the age issue again, but a large garden for a "young" retiree will turn into a burden as the years go by. From experience, you'd eventually end up paying some one to mow the long grass (compulsory for fire-prevention reasons). Fore-warned is fore-armed!

Listen Very Carefully

AS you are retiring remember that a large garden does not get any smaller as you get older and how many french oranges do you see in the shops?

May contain nuts

+1 for what dmu and LVC said..
We live in town and we're lucky to have a small garden to the front and another at the back. At this time of the year, with ideal growing conditions, you can't take your eye off the garden for long.
I used to watch "Escape to the Continent" when we were in England - and many people on the show would say that they wanted a house "with some land" so they could keep a goat or two, a few chickens and a veg patch.. I'm not sure they realised what a millstone they were planning for themselves.

atlasthemonk

It seems that the good life in the French sun could be expensive , hard work and verbally isolating . Not what i was expecting but I do appreciate the honesty and compassion in the replies, Thank you.
looking at the climate map above, the best areas for growing oranges are the dark red areas of Valencia, Seville etc were there is less frost (as that is what the chart is based on). Is cold winters (spells of below 4c) the limiting factor for orange growing in France ? Does anyone know if the dark red areas of the map such as Galicia lisbon ,Algarve, and Gibraltar are kept from freezing by the sun or a sea wind ? (nb wind chill factor for humans) ie not as humanly desirable as they may seem.

Moses2013

Keep in mind that the hardiness map doesn't factor in amounts of rainfall, summer highs, wind, humidity and micro climates. Coastal areas are generally milder/don't see freezing conditions and it's the same for us in Ireland, so certain plants will grow. But then they might need protection from rain or wind etc. I would seriously look at all factors and why does it have to be so many oranges? We went for a smaller garden in Spain, as the garden we have here is just too much work and I want to relax when I'm over there. Many of us won't get younger and underestimate the work/costs a larger garden will bring.

cyrian

Not necessarily. It just depends on the life you are looking for and that you have enough money and adequate health for your chosen lifestyle.
Remember, a substantial number of expats eventually choose to return to their homeland for a variety of reasons e.g. declining health; family pressures; death of a partner etc.

EuroTrash

I think people are warning you about the process of actually setting up a new life in the sun. Once the plans have been turned into reality, that's when the good life starts. But there will likely be hard work, a certain amount of expense and perhaps a language barrier to break through, before you get there.
Imagine moving to the other end of the UK, to a place you know nothing about and where you have no connections, and starting to build a completely new lifestyle. Then factor in dealing with immigration procedures and keeping your paperwork in order, adapting to new local customs, figuring out and getting used to new regulations and systems (healthcare in particular), and living your daily life in a foreign language,
Without knowing anything about your life experiences, we don't know whether this is something you will easily take in your stride. If you've moved around a lot, probably you will. But for many Brits who've lived and worked all their lives in the UK, even in the same part of the UK, it is quite a challenge. However if it's the lifestyle you want and you're up for the challenge, go for it!