frankie.christo

Hi Everyone,

We are hoping to move to Coutances, France by early next year. We have seen a house that we like with lots of work needed but would make a fantastic family home. My husband is a carpenter but turns his hand to most trades and i am a nursery teacher. I have 3 children aged 6,5 and 1 and we are going to visit L'Ecole Primaire guerard de coutances and hope to send the children there. We are all very excited about the move but do not speak much French. I am going to college to learn from september so hopefully learn enough to help me get by.

I would love to speak with people that have made the move to hear your advice and find out how you are getting on.

Hopefully hear from you all soon
Francesca xxxxx

Ka Ora!

Welcome to the Forum, If you get any issues give me a shout

Peabrain

Hi,
Three priorities: language, language, language. As soon as you arrive, you're going to be thrown in at the deep end, having to deal with quite a bit of technical stuff, such as contracts for buying a house, mortgages, estimates from builders, or simply buying, say, paint in a DIY store. The scope for expensive mistakes due to misunderstanding is huge. What do you do when someone needs a doctor at 3 in the morning and you have to phone? Doctors have no legal obligation to speak English, German, or Hindustani. French bureaucracy is as bad as British bureaucracy, and with the addition of the language barrier can be more of a nightmare than it in fact is. Yet you'll be needing it straight away for electricity, gas and water contracts, for tax purposes, welfare allowances, setting up a company, enrolling kids in school or whatever. If you can't speak the language, whatever the country, it's hard, frustrating, and one's self esteem can take a lot of knocks.
Your kids will learn quickly because they'll be in an all-French environment at school. Non-French-speaking adults tend to stick in an English-speaking bubble, and thus not improve their language skills, which seems to render the whole emigration exercise a bit futile. Once they've got over the initial realization that not everyone speaks English, children will usually get on fine, although lots of kids feel awkward around parents who sound like a lousy version of Petula Clark every time they open their mouths, and others can be very resentful towards their parents for having uprooted them, depriving them of their friends and familiar environment, foisting a life on them that they didn't want and hadn't asked for.
You don't say why you want to move to Coutances. Normandy is nice, but winters can be long, cold and boring, especially in a half-finished property that might not even have heating. You may find things completely different in the depths of winter to what they are in summer. It all depends on what you're leaving, and why. Don't forget, unemployment here is very high, the labour system is much more inflexible than in Britain, and there's absolutely no reason why an employer should take on someone who doesn't speak French. Would a British employer take on someone that doesn't have a clue about how to make themselves understood in English? Coutances isn't well-known for its riots or looting, but a lot of France is seething with unrest.
Sorry to sound a little negative, but often people make this kind of choice on a whim, and find themselves stuck in a situation that has little to do with the fantasies they were hoping to play out.
PB

dmu

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
I tend to agree with all that Peabrain has said (except replacing Petula Clark by Jane Birkin).
There's also the question of long-term heathcare coverage, plus la Mutuelle, for all your family, to consider.
France has a higher unemployment rate than the UK and, without being able to communicate with potential French employers (or customers if your OH sets up an Auto-Entrepreneur business), work would be limited to Expats (who are tightening their belts due to the economic situation here). And, without fluent French, I'm afraid that you wouldn't be able to work as a Nursery Teacher. (AFAIK French teachers in State schools have to be of French nationality, anyway...).
Please do your homework carefully - as a couple, I'd say go for it, but with 3 children to bring up, you'll need an adequate regular take-home income to bring them up comfortably. To give an example, the official "poverty threshold" in France for a family of 4 is about 1900€ per month, which covers food and utilities, insurances, petrol, etc... but no treats.
Sorry not to be positive, but I'm being realistic in present-day France.

frankie.christo

Well guys thanks for you comments. I can assure you this is no whim and i have looked into everything that you have already mentioned. We have been going to that part of france for over 14 years now as my in-laws have a house there and we have family and friends there all French!!! We would have a support network to start with, which alot of others do not have. They all speak good english but i am definately keen to learn the language as i want to fit in. My children are very keen to go to France as they have friends there already but i have made them aware that it will be difficult initially. They are all still very young but i am honest and open with them and want them to be involved in the move as much as possible so they do not feel the resentment.

We will not stay at our house whilst the refurbishment is going on as we have the luxury of a very lovely and warm in-laws holiday home.

I dont think that i will be looking to go back to work until my youngest daughter who is 13 months is due to start school. I love being a stay at home mummy with all my time for my children.

I want a simple, happy family life and am not expecting too much. We are currently in London which is very expensive (to buy property) and is busy.

dmu

OK, fair enough! We didn't know you already had family there for support!

frankie.christo

Yes we are very fortunate and the people we have met over the years are very freindly and helpful. We have always loved spending time in France and love the pace of life there. I know that it wont be the same as holidays there but am so scared of the thought of my children being teenagers in London!!!

We have nothing to lose. I am going with an open mind and we can always come back if it is not all i hope it will be.

Peabrain

Hi again,
Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do or what not to do. You seem to have made up your minds already. Bear in mind however what dmu says about having a regular source of income, as of course it is vital, unless of course you have private means. From the housing point of view you seem set up, but don't forget that renovating property always takes far longer than one had previously imagined, especially if you use local artisans, for whom there doesn't seem to be an economic crisis, and who are often booked solid for months. This might mean that you're still ensconced in the in-laws' holiday home along with said in-laws when they come across at holiday time, a delightful prospect I'm sure for the first week or so.... but perhaps not such a good idea long term. If hubby is doing the renovating, he'll have to find out about building materials, legal requirements and standards, often completely different from the UK and all in a foreign language. He might find himself under pressure to finish, and won't have time to look for a job.

Perhaps a word of warning about being a "stay-at-home" mum when in a foreign country, especially when transplanted from the buzz of London, to ..... Coutances, where the only buzz you might here is that of the horse flies. (Sorry, ignore that.) You may find yourself spending inordinate amounts of time in front of the telly, becoming an expert in The Wright Stuff, Jeremy Kyle, Trish or Cash in the Attic. Again, not exactly the reason why one emigrates in the first place. Friends and acquaintances with whom one gets along fine over an apéro of a summer's evening may not be so available to explain a tax form, or act as an interpreter at the Mairie.

Think about it, and don't just be lured by the fact that property prices over here are more sane than on the other side of the English Channel. Once you've upped sticks and come over here, there is often no way of going back.

However, one thing you might want to look into is teaching English at primary school level, as the French are obsessed with this. Local schools use a lot of women to do this, many of whom, alas, are not fit to do so, given their appalling 'command' of what they fondly imagine to be l'anglais. Hence a native speaker will always be welcome, assuming that he or she has some command of French, a must in a classroom situation. I imagine that in Normandy there might be a lot of competition though from other ex-pats. In the longer term, the EU now makes it possible for foreign nationals to work as teachers, without having to be French. But again, going into a classroom full of kids without a really good command of the language is a recipe for disaster and humiliation.

One last thing. You say you're scared about your kids being teenagers in London. I'm sorry, but that is not a reason for fleeing to a foreign country. There are hundreds of thousands of teenage kids in London, they are not all rioters, arsonists, murderers, rapists, drug addicts or looters. Neither are all French kids but exactly the same issues face French parents as face British ones. I don't know the secondary schools in Coutances, but take a look at them, see what proportion of kids go to private schools, always a sign the the state schools are seen as being unsatisfactory. The French school system is tough; school starts at 8 o'clock in the morning and children can find themselves finishing at 6 in the evening. Lessons last 55 minutes each, which is absurd. French children are not always encouraged to participate actively in class, to express themselves. After-school activities are often few and far between. There's no school uniform, so all the boys look like tramps and the girls like hookers. Mathematics still governs academic success or failure. Few schools have anything like the ethos that you still find in British schools. If I had had the choice between the British or the French system for my kids, I wouldn't have hesitated for a second. There are also serious, deep-seated social problems in France that can erupt anywhere, at a moment's notice, including in the provinces, not just in the neuf trois. Not wanting your children to grow up in London may be understandable, but do you want them to grow up to be French, to go through a school system that can still border on the sadistic and that leads to a higher education system that is not in the same league as that in the UK? Look at international league tables for higher education; the French system is laughable. (And I say that as someone who works in it.)
Again, apologies for being, let's say, realistic. S'up to you.
PB

frankie.christo

PB why do you live in France?????

cyrian

I have to agree with dmu - an existing network and support and assistance with language/cultural differences changes the whole prospect. Even with fluent french we still need to ask advice from french friends when something new arises and we don't know how the system works.
You will enjoy the pace of life in France especially compared with London.
Have a search on the forum for different topics - most have been covered before.

Re Peabrains comment.
I works very well for some people who do their homework first and have support - others chance their arm and don't last long. Lots of british kids go through the french school system. The french kids I meet are really nice and are included in the adult world unlike many kids in the UK where many are excluded by the adults and end up surly and uncommunicative.
If it works for you and your kids then you have everything to gain - including bilingual children.

Good luck

frankie.christo

Thank you Cyrian, it is nice to hear something a little more positive about France. I have been going long enough now to know what the people and the children are like. I have watched my friends children grow up and they are doing extremely well. I will be sending my children to a private school and was surprised that it is not half as much as what we would pay in the UK. My children are very bright children and are way above average at the moment which stands them in good stead for when they get to France.

The only thing that stumps me at the moment is trying to work out the tax system. My husband will be working self employed as a carpenter and has already got a few jobs lined up but need to research a bit more about taxes. I know that they are extremely high in France!!!

Im a strong believer in you make life what you want it to be and i will give it a great go.

Thanks again xxxxx

Peabrain

Hi again,
How long have you got? I can quite understand your question, as I may sound negative about this place, but I'm not really.
I live in France because when I was much younger than I am now I met and married a French woman for whom going to live in the UK was out of the question. (This was quite a while ago, needless to say.) That long marriage is now over, but once one has done as I did, and gone the whole hog, taking out French nationality, getting French qualifications, becoming a French civil servant, spending years here, bringing up (French) children, being able to communicate in either language to the same level of complexity, fitting into French society, voting and paying taxes, it is not easy to go back. The turning point comes when one reaches the time when one has lived longer in one country than in the other. What would make me go back to Britain? I have very little family there, the country has changed out of all recognition since I left, I don't feel I belong any more, and I have lost touch with all the friends that I had. I don't feel especially French, but there's more keeping me here than there is calling me back to the UK. There's also another French woman who's turned up.
My point in the previous postings was to point out what everyone that has done what you want to do knows. It isn't easy to start out from scratch, especially, and this is the bottom line, to start out as an adult in a country whose language one does not master, going from perfect fluency in English to pidgin French, going into a shop and not being understood, or being in a difficult situation and knowing that the message one wishes to get across just isn't understood. For kids it's different; for adults it can be hard, and not much fun. A lot of people are taken in by the endless television programmes of the "A Place in the Sun" variety, and they think the grass is most definitely greener on the other side of the Channel. But this must not be taken for granted. It's a long haul. I've known countless "Anglo-Saxons" that come over to Paris thinking that because they're university graduates that can speak English, they're God's gift to the French educational system, and that somehow France should welcome them with open arms, that France owes them a living, that the French welfare system should start doling out benefits left right and centre and "why isn't it like it is in the UK?" They just don't get it; France or any other place for that matter, doesn't owe them anything.
Doubtless this is not your case, but perhaps it goes some way to explaining my (very poor) "advice".
Good luck,
PB

frankie.christo

Thank you for your reply, it helps me understand where you are coming from.
I have no doubt in my mind that it will be difficult at times and trying too.

There is a wonderful thing called google translate which i will be using alot i am sure, until i become more fluent in the language.

Thanks again for your advice, all of which i am very grateful xxx

cjm

Missed this posting from yesterday and also today. Coming fresh to it I have to say there is some serious quality comment here, noteably from Peabrain if I may say. Story lines of why one comes to France are many and various. The threads here are wonderfully illuminating. I can't resist following Peabrain's lead.
Before my present wife and I got together, tying the knot, we checked out the holiday places we had with our former halves. My offer was Greece and the islands, hers was France, in a caravan. Before that, my visit to France was when I was a cub-scout, camping. Given my approaching retirement age, you can work out when that was. We camped on a farm near Luc sur Mer and I recall a visit to Caen and I believe the cathedral. I brought back some very poor wine for my dad and cigars (how would you manage that in the UK?). Can't recall if I brought anything back for my mum; perfume I think. It was also my first view of a naked female, when on the beach a beautiful (I was young remember) young woman had her beach towel whipped away by her, I assume, boyfriend. WOW!
First timers got dunked in the farm water trough (I escaped) and given we are only 10 years after the war, we found helmets and one sub machine gun in the undergrowth.
So, why come to France? It's not cheap. I have very little (better than I was) French - bailed out of the language after one term in my sec-mod school. Rules and regs are a nightmare, certainly with little or no French. Did it seem a good idea? Yes. Why? New life? Yes. I realised how wonderful France was (yes, Places in the Sun has some responsibility).
Agree London issues not a reason to decamp. I'm a west London boy and my 'village', Ealing was hit. I played on the Haven Green, I lived a few hundred yards away. The shops I know, though they have many new owners. Like many, I felt anger, but that's a debate for a new thread or the police and politicians.
We have many French friends. From where we lived a few kilometres away and in our new hamlet (one year on). I play cricket. I act in am-dram. I have volunteered to help with the publicity and marketing for our next year vide grenier and feu d'artifice. Got gobby at a village meeting and hoisted myself! I watch the locals play fierce belote on Sunday morning in our salle, only opening after masse, when locals take it in turn to run the bar. I have been invited to play (I do play), but I am a novice by comparison. Watch and learn.
I will say how welcome I have been made to feel. Maybe it's my age. Not sure. French friends like to practice their English. Love it. I was at the Prefecture this week, trying to register my wife's car (RHD) to get a French plate. In the door, join the queue to the check-in desk. All in French. Did okay. Take a ticket and sit for the number to be called. No 76, guichet 2 appeared. Young woman. No English. Oh dear, but got through it. When you are learning French, day-to-day conversation can be reasonable to pick up by selecting known words and piecing together to make sense. But when you are in a language area where you are in formal conversation, different picture.
No, I don't want to go back to the UK. But, practicalities may kick-in. Inheritance laws create issues for the French, let alone us Brits. Mating two families, to achieve balance and fairness, given one child is already living in Oz and a second looks certain to migrate to NZ. So, perhaps we sell, at some point, hopefully before senility and incapacity set in. Don't want to go back, but practical issues and family may be the catalyst. Interesting, given how important family (in my limited experience) is for the French.
A neighbour, Roget, invlted us for an aperitif, but we missed the add-on that made it a meal. He speaks some English and has a long standing Brit friend, ex RAF chap. What a wonderful evening. Nibbles with Cotes du Rhone (a favourite of mine), then a home made salmon and epinard quiche, then oven cooked chicken (no veg) and bread. Cheese (Columbier) and then fruit, peaches from the tree in the garden. Then the offer of glace for 'dessert'. Also a tour of the house. Theirs is a holiday home, 9they live in a Paris suburb) as are seven of the nine houses around us. All French but a Swedish couple from Stockholm. We are a big holiday area and the beach is 10 mins away.
For the moment, I shall enjoy my adopted home and be grateful. We took some risks in deciding to live in France. It's not always been spot-on. But, where is? Well, it's back to a fresh glass of Cotes du Rhone and preparing my Jambon de Vendée. How did I ever get time to work !

dmu

Hi,
I used to be an "Intervenante" at our local Primary School (when my younger daughter was there), but by dint of being French by marriage. The rules have changed since my day re EU citizens teaching in French State Schools, but you'd have to be "approved" by your regional Académie.
http://pedagogie.ac-amiens.fr/philos...conditions.htm
gives general info on nationality in Section 2.2.1.1.
You must be able to communicate with the pupils in French, otherwise the whole operation is pointless - they won't attempt to follow and you've got to discipline them in a language that they understand.
One possibility of a little extra income per month is coaching in English for local collègiens/lycéens, but, there again, you've got to master French Grammar in order to explain the differences in grammatical terms that they all learned in Primaire.
Back to your OH, some one will come along to explain the Tax situation for Auto-Entrepreneurs, but be aware that there's a monthly sum (nearly 250€?) to pay into Social Contributions, even if he hasn't worked. In fact, any business venture involves paying "crippling" (dixit another BE member) amounts of Social Contributions, whatever the nominal income.
Hope this gives you food for thought! Good luck, whatever!