Touraine

What scares me most are those expats moving to France to open a Gîte, become an expat builder, sell paint, open a chip shop or whatever life changing thingymajiggy thing they want to do in France are those who bring their kids.

I would never bring children under (lets say 8) into France and put them into school here unless you had no choice. It is like killing there career/chances of getting a mortgage at an early age. OK, they can work in the UK but the chances of finding a 'good' job in France is zilch. You have to have a perfect unblemished education in France to make the top schools. Repeat a year and you have had it.

dmu

Have to agree, but shouldn't it be OVER? Up to 8-9, children are young enough to pick up the language, French culture, make friends, and get used to the French Education System before going up to Collège. 10 is the limit and the child should do last year Primaire for an at least partial "apprenticeship". Throwing a pre-adolescent or teenager in at the deep end in Collège/Lycée is asking for trouble and, in fact, it's the only occasion on this Forum when I advise against coming to France (unless there's an International School near the parents' workplace).

InVinoVeritas

What rubbish Intours. Re-doubling has no consequence and can happen for numerous reasons. You really need to qualify your statements and not present them as utter truths.

dmu

Must admit that redoubling is fairly commonplace, but it's marked forevermore in your Dossier and if you hope to get into a Grande Ecole later, an unblemished cursus gives you more chance of getting into a Classe Prépa.

InVinoVeritas

It's just not true, dmu. My son's girlfriend is in Classe Prepa and the big discussion (with her tutors) is whether she can get into a Grande Ecole in Paris, whether to go to a lesser one in Lyon or whether to re-double, do the Concours again andd hope for a better result. She does not have her results yet but her tutors have recommended re-doubling if her results are not quite good enough and have told her that re-doubling can be due to so many reasons that it is not taken into account. We must stop thinking it's a sign of failure.

My wife has been 25 years in various Rectorats and confirms this.

Touraine

My OH went to a top business school and being accepted can be very difficult. Repeating a year won't help. Even your parents jobs can have a bearing.

My OH is so so careful with the kids education. It is like it is a game.

When it gets to the applying for jobs stage life gets worse. With 10 Million unemployed everything will be taken into consideration. Repeating a year won't help.


If you don't become a 'cadre' in France life is going to be very tough.

Welcome to real France.

InVinoVeritas

Intours, please stop just making stuff up.

The number of unemployed in France is NOT 10 million nor anywhere near it

Touraine

Sorry....10.6 %

I am not making this all up. I met my OH at uni and seen her pass her exams, get her first job and rise up the ladder.

I seen her sister go through school. What a nightmare she has had. She is now entering middle aged (like me) and still struggling......and she has a successful career.

I arrived in France at the age of 25 and worked the rat race in Paris in a blue chip company.

The bearing your education has (mostly political/snobbery) on the success of your career cannot be underestimated. You can't do a geography degree and become a bank manager like you can in the UK.


I would not move to France with kids over 8. Even then, I am not sure I would do it.

A career in France is ***. Starting a business in France is ***. I fear for my kids future.

dmu

OH's grandson re-doubled his first year Classe Prépa (after 2 years' lost doing his Bac in 5 years). He isn't an idiot, just nervous at exam time. His only chance now (provided he has passed the Concours) is a lowly Ecole and even then, with the present unemployment rate among the highly qualified, hardly likely to improve by the time he gets his diploma, a potential employer would prefer an Engineer coming from a "good" School and/or without having re-doubled. Or even a Bac+5 via Uni....
It all boils down to whether or not a future employer takes re-doubling into account. All things being relative, from the job-seeking standpoint, it can be a sign of failure....

InVinoVeritas

I go along with you when it comes to job-seeking and actually it is down to two things:-

1. The high unemployment rate which allows anyone offering a job to take what they consider to be the cream of the cream

2. The difficulty in getting rid of somone once you have hired them which means you don't really want to take chances on someone.

If the unemployment rate goes down and the labour market is reformed then things could improve significantly. Until then, if your English is up to it, the best opportunities lie abroad as a French education is highly regarded.

Touraine

The two factors won't change. Most unemployment in France is in rural areas and that is not going to change and those in employment will strike if the laws are reformed.

So what do you do, you have to play the game and play by the rules. Like my OH says, it is a game.

Those moving to France (many with kids and certainly most to rural areas) this year have no idea what they are letting themselves in for in the pursuit of 'Bonnet' France which is not a reality.

I know someone (top manager) who lives in Tours who managed to find a job after a period of unemployment in the middle of nowhere. He commutes/stay over as it is a good hour and a half away. This place/area is an expat hotspot. Brits dream of living there. We asked why he does not move there and become mortgage, keep chickens ect ect ect. He said, 'I don't want to bloody die there' (in the middle of nowhere). Of course also, it would have profound effect on his kids in terms of their schooling/prospects and future social life..

There you go. You have the French view and the British view of life in France.

EuroTrash

Now come on, that's your personal opinion so you shouldn't présent it as a statement of fact. You are clearly a driven, success-orientated person. Me, I'm not. I'm happy living in France, running my little business, doing what I like doing. To you it's sh1te, to me it's honey. You have to accept that not everyone shares your views but it doesn't make them wrong - just différent from you.

Touraine

Actually, I am more like how you describe yourself.

But, I am not oblivious to the problems of France. We have had many opportunities to go abroad including the USA but I have resisted. I like it here. But, like most French families we will make sure our kids are set up for life in whatever they choose to do. I won't rely on the French 'system' to give them a decent life.

Do they have that culture in the UK ?

InVinoVeritas

Are we on planet earth here because you seem to be describing places I don't know?

EuroTrash

Hmm. I'm not too sûre, from what you've said. One radical difference being that I never aspired to climb a career ladder and I never have and never would work in the rat race for a blue chip, I'd rather eat sh1te. I understand what you're saying, that playing thé game to win is hard in France. What I'm saying is, playing that game is optional. And if you don't, well then a lot of thé issues you have raised are non-issues. Contrary to what you seem to keep saying, some people find it relatively easy to live a happy, fulfilling life in a 16th century chocolaté box cottage in a small peaceful town. I'm one of those people.