Touraine

I think it really depends on where you live. Large towns and cities are food heaven in France.

The trouble is that expats moving to France tend to go rural for the cheaper housing and nice views but the local supermarkets/restaurants reflect this and they tend to be run down and don't offer much. Expats therefore get the wrong idea about France and French food. Our local carrefour for example where we live in a large town/city is fantastic and will beat anything in the UK. However, when we go rural to our 'famiy' maison secondaire the local supermarket (20 minutes drive LOL) is naff. It would be hard to live there full time and not starve to death. I prefer now to go on holiday in Paris. I would rather have a small holiday flat in Paris than a pile of stones overlooking a field in the middle of nowhere. The food is much better.

InVinoVeritas

Well, I have been here 25 years and live on the Cote d'Azur - maybe it's even worse elsewhere but "la gastronomie en crise" is a serious problem which has had some top chefs making representation to government. The US, UK, Italy and Spain have all overtaken France in recent years.

Bonnet

WHOA! I don't know why some expats re still here!

I adore France. We are comfortable on about 25000 euros income per year, have never had trouble with beaurocracy, decided what health and other insurances we need and got it, asked lots of questions, have never heard expats sit and moan about France (except one and we ignore him). I am fully occupied running a small B&B and hold another online job I can do in my spare time.
We bought this house at about 20% under the asking price...if you are staying, now it the time to buy. The choice is huge and you can bargain.

Our local supermarket has been totally renovated and is now very good. If I need anything I can't find here of any description I order it online. I have never had a problem with beaurocracy and find officials helpful.

In GB in March I found litter, dirty air, crowds, dissatisfaction, cold weather and general malaise. Even the wall to wall carpeting didn't help. The food was varied in cultural choice but so-so in quality. We have a Michelin star chef in this small town. We have influences from Spanish and Basque cooking plus a huge range of international people living here. Both if us are affiliated with people from all over the world.

I am fully occupied and feel rested, unstressed and very happy here in the deep SW.. Don't look in big cities for France...it exists in smaller corners...the Gers or the Lot and Garonne. Decide what quality of life you want and do a LOT of research. Leatn French and don't be afraid to use it. Keep a healthy SOH and take every advantage of the place you find.
It isn't for everyone but I would never be anywhere else.

Touraine

WHOA...I can't agree with that.

The closest thing you will get to France (or French living) is in a French city. Paris is a good example. Tours (little Paris) is not bad. Lyon is OK.

French living......is going to school, going to university, getting a job, getting married, having kids, getting a mortgage, buying a house, selling a house, losing your job, singing on at the ANPE, getting another job, trying to become a cadre, going on holiday in peak season, getting stuck in traffic , fighting your entire life against beaurocracy...and then retiring.....eventually in town/city location close to hospitals an amenities. That is French life. It is exactly the same as the UK.

Give me the excitement of Paris/city life over some boring village any day. Quaint villages are for holidays.

cyrian

What part of the UK are you comparing to where you live?
You previously stated that the French autoroutes were deserted which is not a typical picture of many French autoroutes.
You have to pay to use French autoroutes - in the UK they are free.
But the M6 (Toll) is deserted by comparison to others.
If you are making a comparison then you at least have to make an effort to compare like-with-like.

dmu

So do I, but I've been living here even longer than IVV, and over the decades have seen the French getting more and more morose, with the economic situation hardly likely to improve in the near future. My own Anglo-French children work abroad, as they don't see a future for them in France.
Which is why I, for one, tell potential expats what to expect, esp. if they haven't got a job lined up, hence no healthcare coverage. And all the social charges if they set up a business structure. And all the bureaucracy for getting their UK qualifications validated here. And all the quirky French laws and legal procedures so different from the UK. I always follow this by "Fore-warned is fore-armed" and leave it to the posters to believe it or not.
I'm now wondering whether I'm the "one, and we ignore him"

InVinoVeritas

And I was thinking it was me

Anyhow rose-tinted glasses are much in evidence in Bonnet's thinking. Sure France is a wonderful place from a tourist's point of view, it's just a hard place to make a living and make ends meet. And just when you think you're ahead of the game another tax or retro-active price increase hits you in the nuts.

Bonnet

From the OP:

I find the health insurance issue terribly complicated, where does the truth lie? [/quote]

It lies in your particular circumstances. There have been many threads and discussions here about that issue. Research it and decide what you need. Check out what you get as a fundamental package and then decide if you need extra and how much. Go to an insurance company and discuss it.

From this question I can only assume the OP is not really into cities. And no, life does not begin and end in one. It is perfectly possible to live in deepest rural France and be an hour from a city. Children actually DO live in rural France and some like it and some don't. Like London, cities do not represent the rest of the nation. Cheap or expensive depends on what you want, expect and are happy to live with. Some things are cheaper, some more expensive. IMO it evens out. Being self employed is expensive. Finding a job as Brits is very difficult...it's the accent. But the price of things varies...and it is far more expensive to live in a city. No room for chickens and a potager! I wouldn't bet on finding a "fruitful life" in anywhere but the most remote parts of GB...it is far easier to find it here. But if fruitful means culture, then live within travelling distance of a city. When I want opera I go 40 minutes to Biarritz. If I want concerts I go 40 mins the other way and go to Pau. If I want fine art I take a fast train to Paris. If I want to her a dozen different kinds of birdsong I lie in bad every morning and listen.

Depends what you do it for. As a revenue source , maybe. As a responsibility, it's up to you. As an escape route, probably yes.

That also depends on the level of integration you want. You are welcome to belong to anything you want in France (except political parties). You will be welcome as a regular in bars and shops, shake hands, get a smile, get stopped in the street for a chat and come to know some of the family if you live outside a city. But you won't be invited to French family do's or into their private lives. The French tend to be quite private when it comes to families.

There are lots of questions to ask yourself. Why am I doing this? What is my aim and objective? What kind of lifestyle do I want? Look on the internet for a good idea of house prices in your preferred areas. Look at the facilities offered and the flexibility the area gives you. Be in contact with a couple of estate agents...many speak English.

re transport, OF COURSE motorways are more crowded around cities! And no they are not free here so take the N roads instead. They aren't hugely expensive either. Plan on a slightly longer but more interesting journey. You are looking for less stress? Plan to live where you don't need to use the motorways often. Make long lists about priorities and possibilities. No one can be your crystal ball but they can tell you what works for them and how they found out what that was.

I am surprised at the worldweariness sometimes shown here. If you don't like where you are, move. Who is in control of your own happiness but yourself? I never have sympathy for those who moan about their living situation. They can change it, given patience and perseverance. And I would NEVER complain bitterly about my choice of residence and do try not to compare GB with France. They are different places with different histories and cultural roots and expectations. For one thing their relationship with the state is very different than in GB....read up a bit on the effects of the Revolution, still extant today. There are books describing modern French life and attitudes. Mine are pretty much out of date now....there are many written after 1996 when I came.

Just read, explore and absorb whatever interests you....history, cultural icons, rural and city life, current politics, ask questions and find out on the net.

Then you can answer your own questions. But I would advise you NOT to just come. I would bet the deeds to the ranch it would be a disaster.

grannybunz

I was thinking that there a load of grummpy old gits on here too and quite often.

Having mostly lived and worked in cities for the 40+ years before finally settling here permanently (admittedly not counting 6 years working on an isalnd in the Bahamas when we were in our 20s, I have never been happier since escaping to a quieter, rural but not remote place where we have friends and real neighbours and a great communty atmosphere.

Fabulous ingredients from fabulous local shops and a world class market enough to satisfy the greatest chef in the world. Great restaurants at all levels where we count the chefs as personal friends.We just avoid the boil-in-the -bag ones.

Lovely Mairie who will go out of their way to help, as will the local tax office. Some great artisan work people who have helped us restore the house bit by bit over the 25 years we have had the house and are now also friends.

MIND. we have worked at it, one with an excellent command of French and the other well able to cope, always joining in with anything happenening but always trying to keep out of neighbourly disputes unless asked but not being shy to stand up for our rights when necessary. Never taking more than we can give etc etc

All I can say is that whever you choose to live, or find yourself living , it is up to you to make a positive sucess of it Of course sometimes life gets frustrating and annoying, but doesn't it everywhere?

We don't have many expat friends but those we have are not normally moaners and if they start we simply say we don't agree, unless of course, they have a justified grouse.

Touraine

Bonnet

Just asking for the sake of the debate. If you want to experience France/French living' in the year 2015 do you move to a large town/city or a village ?

Novocastrian

Why so manichean? How about a village within comfortable striking distance of large towns/cities?

InVinoVeritas

A born again atheist proposing the religion of Manachaeism - what has happened to this thread?

(Actually I had never heard of it before)

Bonnet

France and French living?

PERSONALLY all cities are pretty much the same. If I want to experience French culture I can't do that in a city. The real France is out picking grapes in the vineyards or castrating maize, tasting different local breads and olives and pates...listening to patois and dialect and to different music and watching different sports. It is knowing the difference between a Bearnaise beret and a Basque one. It is knowing subtle differences in jokes and stories, about knowing the best waterfalls or the relationship between the woman who lives over the road and the one who lives in the next village. About who owns that field and the reason a house I used to live in is called Marquemal. It is about local French football and rugby teams and the rivalry between them.

It isn't about cars and work and stress and crowds...I can have that in London or Lyon. It is for me about a representative special place that goes deep into history and tradition. And incidentally, I doubt very much is ANYONE can "know" French culture. Every twenty miles there is another wrinkle in it. I have driven the length and breadth of France and it is startling how many "cultures" there are.

Like Novo I prefer a small town within an hour of a largish city...if for nothing else for the hospitals and theatre and concerts and art and shops. But IMO those aren't culture ..they are diversions I can find in London or Berlin or New York.Real culture is to be had sitting around an old plank table drinking local wine and chatting to the old men in the village or round the fire in the evening with shepherds and farmers. They are still there with their grandchildren on their knee listening to what they will be telling their children.

I personally feel if you haven't touched this intimacy with France you haven't known the country. You have merely lived in France.

InVinoVeritas

I also live in the country 30 mins from several large towns but I wouldn't go so far as to say I am at the epicentre of French living - how could I be when half of all French live in towns of over 10,000 inhabitants. Retired people can choose to live away from towns and have the time to contemplate their navels as well as the berets worn by their neighbours. But real life in most of France is, unfortunately, much more like Intour's description in #19

cyrian

I found myself agreeing with most of your post - until the final rather pompous statement.