Del_f

So I am just checking out properties at the moment. I am seeing some "maison de marthe" for sale. These seem like a lot of house for not too much money ( 100-150k for 3-4 bed. Is there a reason for that, or is that just French market prices.

thanks

cyrian

Hi Del
Welcome to the forum.
The French housing market is nothing like the UK housing market.
Sometimes a house can stay on the market for years and you shouldn't expect to make a profit from the eventual sale.
Even upgrading a house will not necessarily add value.
Many rural villages are dying due to the depopulation of rural areas.
The bars are closing; the bakers is closed; the doctor's surgery is closed and the pharmacy has gone.
This leads to cheaper house prices and also many French people don't want to buy old houses.
They would prefer to buy a plot of land and build a modern well-insulated home with mod-cons and solar panels on the roof.
I would say that 100-150k for 3-4 bedrooms could be considered expensive in some areas.
Have a look at this site which gives the selling prices of property. It is not as comprehensive as those UK sites but it may help.
French sold prices for houses
I would consider renting a property in the first instance and perhaps even for the long term.

You state in your other post that you will be coming with your "partner". please be aware that "partners" are not legally recognised in France and do not benefit from the tax breaks that married or PACS'd couples enjoy.
You also suggest that you may be working online which as a permanent resident would require you to register with the French tax authorities (Fisc) and declare all your worldwide income and pay French social charges (NIC).
Unlike the UK, retirees in France continue to pay social charges.
In addition, you would both need to register with the French healthcare system and a mutuelle health insurance ( not obligatory but very strongly recommended).
If either of you has children from a previous relationship, then you should pay special attention to French inheritance law.

There are lots of things to consider when moving to France.
Good luck with your proposed move.

Del_f

Hi Cyrian,

Thank you. Yeh, just looking & getting a feel for houses at the moment. & your explanation re rural, is probably why I saw that cheap house (wasnt planning on buying, just interested as to why )

Have already been looking at the inheritance stuff, among other things. & the bureaucracy, that said bureaucracy thing doesn't worry me, I lived in Germany for 12 years & they also like their bureaucracy

We`re probably 18 months, maybe 2 yrs from making the move & so just starting the plan & making sure we can do/get what we want

Tweedpipe

Welcome to the forum!
There's certainly no shortage of Maison de Maitre in France, one of the reasons being that due to the overheads of upkeep etc, many have fallen into disrepair. Also when many of these were built, families were much larger and 6, 8 or more rooms were commonplace and the owners could easily afford domestics to clean/maintain the fireplaces, rooms etc. Many older properties today are not energy efficient, and this should be indicated in the ads. An insolation rating of D or below = "you'd be wise to think again".
30 or so years ago the idea of purchasing a maison de maitre (or mansion as we would call them) greatly appealed to me. However when approaching retirement and more serious consideration was given, I realised (fortunately with the very wise advise of Mme TP) that although the purchasing costs were within budget that it would be foolhardy to launch into a property far too large than we would ever need. One of the things that my wife emphasised was that between Nov and April the heating bills could be eyewatering. So women do indeed have their uses....... I listened to her and took her advise; we purchased a modern, far nicer property, and we've never looked back.
Others may have counter arguments, and it would be interesting to hear them.

Moses2013

Agree and be it France, Spain or Portugal and even in Ireland I feel some houses in this price range are expensive. You might have no services close by, the septic tank needs replacing, then it's the roof, plumbing, electrics and dampness, driveway etc. After that the house is no longer that cheap for the location it's in.

EuroTrash

As others have said, it's the maintenance/running/upkeep costs and hassle that make maisons de maître a less attractive proposition in the French market, hence lower prices. The trend among younger buyers is towards laying out more money to more to purchase a carbon neutral property with low running costs. This is driven by government policy and the way it is feeding down, for instance if you need a mortgage you can get significantly better rates on property with good energy ratings. The day may come when you can't get a mortgage on anything with a poor rating. Rental law is also being tightened up and probably before too long properties in the "thermal sieve" category will not be allowed on the rental market, so nobody is going to buy them as buy to lets either.

And also as others have said, if you're both UK passport holders, make sure you do your research on what's required to obtain a visa that will allow you to work in France. Working remotely doesn't avoid this, if you're in France when do your work then you're working in France and your income tax and social taxes are due in France. So you'd need to apply for a visa that gives you the right to work, which are a bit harder to get than visitor visas.

Happy planning, it's a nice stage to be at - all those different possibilities in front of you

Del_f

Thanks everyone for the replies... Regarding the working, I thought UK & France had a tax agreement, where if I paid UK tax, I wouldnt need to pay French tax? or has this been done away with / another brexit casualty ?

Thanks

cyrian

It has always been the case that you pay your tax where your bum is.
Every household (or individual) must complete a French tax return if you are tax resident in France and that is for world-wide income.
The problem is that you are required to set up a French company / business structure. You cannot just start working as you can in the UK.
The type of business structure depends on the type of business.
This applies to French people and other EU citizens who are resident in France.
In the UK, you should inform HMRC and DWP when you leave the UK. You can then pay no UK tax and declare your earnings in France.
As I said above, you will have to pay French s/s payments.
The fisc (tax office) are more agressive in pursuing non-declaration of income than HMRC.
If you receive a State pension or a private pension then there would be no tax deducted in the UK and tax would be paid in France.
The UK State pension is not taxed but is taxable and would be added to any other income to establish the total tax payable AND the social charges.
You simply cannot just move to France and carry on as before as far as employment and tax are concerned.
You cannot choose where you pay your tax.

EuroTrash

There is a tax agreement. But that is not what the agreement says.
The purpose of the tax treaty is simply to avoid double taxation, so the agreement between France and the UK is about which sources of income will be taxed in which country. Income earned in France, is taxed in France. Individuals don't get a choice where they pay their tax.
It might be a good idea to read the tax treaty as part of your planning because the economic side of things can be important. Also the nuts and bolts of setting up and running a business in France, which tends to be more expensive and bring more obligations than running a business in the UK. The UK is regarded as one of the most small-business-friendly countries in which to run a business - in other words, running a small business in any other country is likely to be less simple.
TBH, it's easier to move when you've retired...

Del_f

Hi Cyrian,
this bit confused me... so if I was working for say EDF, I would still need to setup a french company/business structure? Or probably, me not being clear. I wont be working for myself, I intend to find some sort of employment.

& EuroTrash I probably will be retired, but other half, isnt.. she would still have a few years to go.

As I said, luckily im not moving next week... so I have a couple of years to work it out.

​​​​​​​TIA
​​​​​​​

cyrian

If you are working for EDF in the UK then they would either have to register with the FISC and CAAF and pay your taxes and social contributions OR they transfer you to EDF in France.
If a UK employer is unwilling to register with the French authorities for just one employee then you could set up a French company and be paid as a contractor.
French social charges can be quite a bit higher than NIC in the UK and with certain company structures in France and you have to pay these upfront off your turnover.
If you are working for a French company all these things are taken care of.

EuroTrash

Well, except that France has tight laws on "hidden employment" which is broadly similar to the UK's IR35 regs on off-payroll working. France classes it as social security fraud and the penalties are a bit eye watering, but more to the point, if you put forward a business plan saying you were going to set up a company to work for your employer, you wouldn't get your visa.

dmu

Sorry, but when I read the title, I thought it was a completely different type of house:
https://www.maisondemarthe.com/
Seriously though, @del f, please take everything said above on-board. Particularly the employment status/Social Security Contributions aspect (more important than Income Tax IMO) and your "partner" status. France isn't a partner-friendly country, you would be considered as two separate individuals in all administrative respects, and importantly, on Inheritance. A "partner" doesn't have the same rights as a legal spouse and must either pay a horrendous Succession Tax if named in a Will, or has no rights at all if not named, in which case everything goes to the legal next-of-kin. Either way, there would be financial problems for the surviving partner.... If you buy property jointly, ask the Notaire for possible ways of avoiding such problems, one of which would be to get married!
You don't say how your respective French is, but you've both got time to get it to an adequate level before you arrive, so that you can cope better with bureaucracy.
Good luck with your plans!

EuroTrash

When I saw the title of the thread my first thought was, is this a slang term for a "house of ill repute" and I was ready for anything when I opened it!

Tweedpipe

Est-ce que ils embauche........?