grannybunz

I don't know if anyone knows but on the latest evaluation of universities world-wide (http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2012.html) the highest placing of a French University was 37th.

Our daughter, who has a French law degree, says she is not in the least surprised and wants her daughter to go to an American university. Several French friends have actually sent their offspring to university in the UK and others have had youngsters who have dropped out completely.

I regret to say that higher education in France (my husband was another who completed his here) has gone right down the pan and is in urgent need of reform. Available to many maybe but actually delivering, afraid not.

Peabrain

The trouble is the cost of allowing anyone who has obtained their baccalauréat an automatic place in university has its cost. (This is a constitutional right ) There have to be lecturers on hand to teach kids that are going to drop out and the infrastructure has to be in place to accommodate them. Around 40% of students entering university actually graduate after three or four years. That's a 60% failure rate. If only from the economic point of view it's a disastrous waste of resources. In addition a mere licence is practically worthless on the job market.
The French attach great importance to academic qualifications; too much probably, but to have around 150,000 young people entering university per year knowing that 40% won't make it, cannot make for a healthy situation, and young people do feel conned. It's the highly selective routes to academic success that matter most to employers, whether it be a DUT or being a graduate from Normale Sup., HEC or Polytechnique. They are the ones that will be offered the jobs, not someone with a mere university degree.

EuroTrash

@ Novocastrian - No I didn't know you were a geordie!

And I just checked and I got it wrong - the 'alleged' proposed name was actually 'City' not 'Central'. Here you go: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads...n-tyne.678452/. The story went round uni admin circles and caused much hilarity, I don't suppose there was any truth in it but it was kind of sideswipe at the sort of pretentious names these institutions were inventing for themselves.

Novocastrian

Goodness me! Who knew that mackems had the internet?

EuroTrash

Is it, though? They didn't get their licence but they tried university and discovered it wasn't for them, and they maybe got something out of it in terms of post-bac education and personal development, if not a degree. Yes you can call it a waste of money, and it is, but the government squanders far more public money on far worse causes than that. And letting them all go to uni keeps them off the job market for another year or two and saves on the chomage budget. I'd rather my tax money went towards paying lecturers to teach students who may or may not finish their courses, than over-paying clueless ivory-tower-academics-turned-minister like Sylvie Pinel

But I agree education in France is in a mess and the UK is no better and goodness knows what the answer is. There are so many good and committed teachers (I'm thinking of the UK but hopefully the same applies in France) trying to do their best for the kids against all the odds and obstacles that successive governments throw at them.

I've done ranting for today, I'll off and do something useful, but enjoyed the chat.

cardi

I've been to all those cities and have seen every cathedral in France.

Rio de Janeiro, San Francisco, Siena, Venice, Florence, Santiago de Chile, Santiago de Compostela even Singapore and Hong Kong can claim some vestige of beauty but Limoges and Nice, hardly.

Peabrain

Yes, it is a 60% failure rate, and in catastrophic conditions. Students that drop out don't do so because they aren't up to university standard. They don't try higher education, work at it and get selected out. They just don't bother turning up to classes after a couple of weeks (if you're lucky) and then simply disappear off the radar. The most motivated ones will take exams, fail and then besiege, stalk and harass lecturers with requests / demands for a reassessment until they get the pass mark. I don't really see anything "educational" about the experience and little in the way of personal development.
The trouble is, the academic sectors where selection operates are successful, and give the tax payer value for money. The universities, whose hands are tied because of the absence of selection, have been pressurizing successive governments to merge, say, les classes préparatoires where the success rate is around 80% with universities. Why destroy sectors that work, for the benefit of one that has patently failed?
But that's enough ranting for me too. Now, where did I hide that lawnmower?
PB

PS I Googled Ms Pinel, and wouldn't have thought she was a high-flying academic. Actually, I'm ashamed to say I'd never heard of her.

EuroTrash

Not a high-flying academic, a mediocre academic who has spent all her short life to date carrying out research projects, has never done a day's graft alongside real working people in her life, and has explained to the government that it's better for small businesses that are paying their way but never going to grow into big businesses to be shut down, because they can't provide sufficient long-term financial security. I was using her and her very generous salary package as an example of a waste of taxpayers' money.

pamelagip

hi there,

First of all thank you for your helpful answers, and sorry for late response to this thread but I wasn't at home ... Anyway I heard that ever year thousands of students have the opportunity to study in France which makes a place with most prestigious universities on Europe. The only thing that changed my mind about it is that you have not only interesting topics but also numerous free time activities and many travel opportunities. As I read you have chance to work while you are studying and that's a positive thing for me. Found also some interesting materials here http://www.studying-in-france.org/ (detailed cost of living, why to choose France over other countries, requirements, accommodation, working while studying and much more )

Anyway I have to choose to go or not in France, so many answers will help me a lot.

pamelagip

Is my post deleted? I've just replied and I even can't see my response!

Pollyana

Sorted

Its because you included a link in it, and you are a new poster - anti-spam device that means a Mod needs to approve the post before it appears on the forum

pamelagip

Ahhh I didn't know about that, (sorry if I had break any forum rules, i'll not do it again).. I have to notice that I have nothing to do with that resource just random one.