Cheechy

Hello, I wondered if you experienced people had any thoughts on my sketchy and ambitious lifestyle change...

I am early 30s and my wife is early 20s (and french). We are thinking about giving it all up and moving to France in a few years (read <5), probably to run some kind of tourist business.

We earn around 4000 EUR per month from our property portfolio. I don't really want to sell anything so will keep the property as-is. It is London based. Plan is to buy in the Aquitaine-Limousin-Poitou-Charente region (no idea on budget - I expect 500-1M).

I see the gites business is a bit of a mixed bag on the forums here. Is the UK gite dream still alive? On a different note, do you think we are going to go mad moving 'so young'?...

Tweedpipe

Welcome to the forum!
As I see it, age is certainly not the problem. What is most important is doing the necessary research for your planned business. As you've correctly read, making a comfortable living from a gite is very iffy, many having tried it with their dreams turning into sorrows. It's all about getting the location right and offering something very special that set you apart from the others. And obviously Brexit opens up a whole different load of questions, of which nobody can yet give meaningful answers to.

EuroTrash

LOL, your post makes it sound like you regard France as some backwater, or a kind of elephant's graveyard where cottontops and wrinklies go to curl up and die!
There are also young, ambitious people in France - creatives, entrepreneurs, rat-racers, the spectrum. Actually I've heard it said that gites are quite hard work.
And equally, it's easy enough to drop out and live the good life in the UK. Find a sleepy chocolate box village, run a B&B in summer and veg out the rest of the year. Buy a smallholding. Whatever.
So I think maybe you need to think about the lifestyle choice, and the move to France, as two separate issues. Are you ready to "give it all up"? If so, having given it all up, what are you hoping to find in France that you couldn't find in the UK? Life is what you make it, wherever you are.

Without knowing you personally it's impossible to advise on lifestyle. Some people have more "inner resources" than others. Spme people need more structure in their lives than others. I don't think it's necessarily an age thing. But in any case there is no reason why any move has to be forever. If France doesn't suit you or you get bored, you can move back, or try something else.

When and if the time comes, be sure and look into taxes. The tax system in France is regularly tweaked, far more often and more radically that the UK system that tends to stay basically the same decade after decade, but at present I believe that owners of property portfolios do get clobbered quite hard in France.

scot47

Just live as rentiers ? You do not need to do anything !

Cheechy

Sorry! I didn't mean to come across as dismissive of France! From what I understand I wouldn't have any tax on top of the UK with the dual tax agreement in place (in the current situation), obviously im keen to stay out of the wealth tax but I think that can be done from people I have spoken to. However I will seek professional advice.

I'm a serial expat, so am pretty culturally aware and with my wife being French I think France is a more interesting move than anywhere in the uk.

Running a generic gite sounds risky to me, especially when we are dependent somewhat on the income (even if it is only for unnecessary purchases). Specialisation is clearly the way to go. In what, I dont yet know...

Cheechy

It seems very iffy but then the couples on channel 4 make it look easy! Although I am under no illusions that it is and certainly don't want to own a money pit of a chateau!

EuroTrash

UK rental income is taxable in the UK but if you live in France and your household owns worldwide property valued at over 1,300,000€ you would currently be liable for IFI. I don't know of any (legal) way round that.
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/N20074

Also bear in mind that your income tax band is based on worldwide income. So if you already have a household income from the UK of around 50k, any gite income you earn in France on top of that is going to be in the 30% tax band. Is it worth it?

I've read that you need at least 4 or 5 gites to make a useful level of income. Of course it depends on location, how long the season is (can be as short as 4 - 6 weeks in some parts of France), local competition etc, the market is pretty saturated generally. But in the end I guess it comes down to how good your business and marketing skills are, how hard you work at it and do you have a flair for it.

Cheechy

I had a read of an article on french tree 'renting-out-a-uk-property-as-a-french-resident/' which seems to imply that I would be awarded tax credits. I also thought that any buy 2 let is exempt from wealth tax? I had planned to leave some mortgage on the property to keep it buy to let, worst case scenario I can sell and invest in something else. Worst worst case scenario, I can pay the tax.

At the 4-5 gite level isn't that earning around 60-80k eur per year?

EuroTrash

I don't know the details on IFI. I wasn't aware that any property you own is exempt. I seem to recall reading that there are abattements you can claim for rental properties but you have to justify them, eg you could maybe argue that the market value of the property is lower because it is tenanted, or I guess if you have a mortgage on it. You'd need to find out, as you say it's not necessarily a deal breaker but tax is a factor most people do take into account when deciding which country to live in.
Yes, as said, UK rental income is always taxable in the UK. France applies tax credits to it so that you're not double-taxed on the same income. But this income is included in your RFR=revenu fiscal de référence=total taxable household income; which means that if you have other income in France, it will likely be taxed at a higher rate than it would have been if it was your only source of income.
Are you saying that you'd expect to make 60-80k € profit from 4 to 5 gites? I think that might be a tad optimistic, even as a turnover figure.
I know one couple who have a gite, OK they don't make the most of it business wise because they don't need the money and mostly it's used for visiting relatives but they do get a fair few bookings, in fact they sometimes complain how much work it is, and they seem to think that 8k turnover a year is pretty good going. I guess that would work out around 5k profit or less? It's a lovely place, I don't actually know what they charge per week but I assume it's not cheap.
I would be amazed if anyone makes anywhere near 20k a year profit on one gite. But will be interested to see what other posters say.

Cheechy

Oh only going off a 2 or 3 gite property I saw pulling in 40k!

Exp76

As for being too young, the sooner you move the better, so that if it doesn't work out you can move on and still have time to find something else that works for you.
As for running gites, the roads of France are littered with the bodies of Brits who saw something on TV ! Also be aware that AirBnB is rapidly expanding rural areas so you may have competition for local residents who have the odd spare room in a home/farmhouse that has been in the family for generations. I'd certainly be inclined to go for one of those instead of a professionally run gite.

Dmac_

Absolutely not. Go do it. It's rare that people regret the things they DID do.

G-J-B

I'm sure in your heart you know if you really want to give it a try or not... I was 30 when I moved to France, and my finances won't nearly like yours. These days I get by on a pittance, but I don't feel like I go without want for anything. It depends what you want from life. Gites can be hard work and don't necessarily pay much, but with your rental situation and presumably large savings you could afford to adopt a more relaxed lifestyle if it suited you. If career, money and business are your motivators, you might be better around London.

cyrian

Set up a company in the UK.
It needs professional advice to get the full picture because it changes several other parameters and may not be worth it.

EuroTrash

Good advice.