Language the only barrier
Sep 19th 2008, 11:07 am
#76
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,551
Re: Language the only barrier
Hi Karunia
Your post echoes very much what I know is the experience of many people I have met - sometimes I think when I post people will think I am such a pessimist, so thanks for backing me up! I know some ex-pats over here, the husband has no real trade, his wife has been told by the job centre that she will never get a "proper" job over here, she has I think maybe a few O levels and has never had a French lesson over here, assuming she can or has picked it up. Yet she thinks she will get a job in admin.
Why? She tried and failed to get seasonal cleaning work 
. Frankly I think they are kidding themselves if they think they can get by here. It is a slippery slope indeed.
Others I know, now gone back to the UK (now divorced) spent the first year, by all accounts sat outside, admiring the view and drinking wine. None of them wanted to go back, least of all the children but there was, in the end, no option, but at least they were big enough to admit it
!
I just wanted to point out (again, sorry!) that moving here doesn't work for everyone, as has been said no two set of circumstances or lifestyles are the same.
Your post echoes very much what I know is the experience of many people I have met - sometimes I think when I post people will think I am such a pessimist, so thanks for backing me up! I know some ex-pats over here, the husband has no real trade, his wife has been told by the job centre that she will never get a "proper" job over here, she has I think maybe a few O levels and has never had a French lesson over here, assuming she can or has picked it up. Yet she thinks she will get a job in admin.
Why? She tried and failed to get seasonal cleaning work . Frankly I think they are kidding themselves if they think they can get by here. It is a slippery slope indeed.Others I know, now gone back to the UK (now divorced) spent the first year, by all accounts sat outside, admiring the view and drinking wine. None of them wanted to go back, least of all the children but there was, in the end, no option, but at least they were big enough to admit it
!I just wanted to point out (again, sorry!) that moving here doesn't work for everyone, as has been said no two set of circumstances or lifestyles are the same.
If I was repeating the move in this Financial Climate I must admit I would be paying a lot more attention to Disaster Recovery options. It's not a bed of rose's, It can be very frustrating at times.
Sep 19th 2008, 11:29 am
#77
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Location: Normandy, France and occassionally Nova Scotia!
Posts: 3,373
Re: Language the only barrier
I don't think you are being a pessimist at all, more a realist. Think what we have to remember though is that these sort of situations aren't unique to those moving to France, it is happening all over, you just have to read some of the threads in the other forums. Even those moving back to the UK experience the same problem - and there it has nothing to do with language.
In our part of Normandy, I don't know of anyone from UK going back, whereas in Canada I know of at least 6 couples - getting UK qualifications accepted there is a nightmare. These are professional people who did their homework too.
In our part of Normandy, I don't know of anyone from UK going back, whereas in Canada I know of at least 6 couples - getting UK qualifications accepted there is a nightmare. These are professional people who did their homework too.
Sep 19th 2008, 1:32 pm
#78
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Re: Language the only barrier
The French friend I mentioned earlier in the thread reckons that she is the only one of her school year still in France, her peers have all gone to work abroad, Germany, UK, US etc., as they can't get decent jobs here - and they are young professionals. She and her husband have thought seriously about moving to the UK. How does that work then? They must be mad!
Ka Ora!, clearly you are super-human! Us mere mortals have to struggle
Folk I know who have gone back to the UK recently have found work straight away, thanks to old jobs/connections. I think it would be difficult getting back into the housing market though, especially if you are wanting a mortgage.
How does that work then? They must be mad!Ka Ora!, clearly you are super-human! Us mere mortals have to struggle
Folk I know who have gone back to the UK recently have found work straight away, thanks to old jobs/connections. I think it would be difficult getting back into the housing market though, especially if you are wanting a mortgage.
Sep 19th 2008, 1:35 pm
#79
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,094
Re: Language the only barrier
The French friend I mentioned earlier in the thread reckons that she is the only one of her school year still in France, her peers have all gone to work abroad, Germany, UK, US etc., as they can't get decent jobs here - and they are young professionals. She and her husband have thought seriously about moving to the UK. How does that work then? They must be mad!
Ka Ora!, clearly you are super-human! Us mere mortals have to struggle
Folk I know who have gone back to the UK recently have found work straight away, thanks to old jobs/connections. I think it would be difficult getting back into the housing market though, especially if you are wanting a mortgage.
How does that work then? They must be mad!Ka Ora!, clearly you are super-human! Us mere mortals have to struggle
Folk I know who have gone back to the UK recently have found work straight away, thanks to old jobs/connections. I think it would be difficult getting back into the housing market though, especially if you are wanting a mortgage.
Sep 19th 2008, 2:50 pm
#80
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Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Herault
Posts: 214
Re: Language the only barrier
The French friend I mentioned earlier in the thread reckons that she is the only one of her school year still in France, her peers have all gone to work abroad, Germany, UK, US etc., as they can't get decent jobs here - and they are young professionals.
Folk I know who have gone back to the UK recently have found work straight away, thanks to old jobs/connections.
Folk I know who have gone back to the UK recently have found work straight away, thanks to old jobs/connections.
L'Acajou,
No surprise here, unfortunately. See this article on "French Exodus", just over a year old but still pertinent.
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,...606909,00.html
Two younger friends of mine (British women), early 40's, both postgraduates, one is bilingual and highly qualified professional, has been unsuccessfully looking for work for a couple of years now - she did get a part-time, temporary cleaning job when the real cleaning woman was off on maternity leave.
The second friend, trilingual, and also highly competent, has been trying to set up her own business here and has met all kinds of problems although she has followed all the right routes and has all the connections - although she had run something similar in England, and very successfully - she is still living on the proceeds I think, but they will not last forever!
The best job offers these 2 friends have had have come from the UK! So one of them went back for 6 months, earning what would be considered here a small fortune.
The second friend has now just returned from her 2-month job in London - but both are very keen to find work here in France, since this is where they now live!
There is always the exception, and I am always delighted to see when someone has found a worthwhile job, or just any job at all, here in France.
But on the other hand, as Val says, realism is crucial when one contemplates such a major move. It is a major move, even though the UK is so close - simply because many things are so different here, and the TV programmes in the UK don't always show the more tricky aspects of coming to live in France if you are needing to work and are having to raise a family.
It is so heartbreaking to see (I can think of two, at the moment) families who came here to "live the dream" and find that it turns into some sort of nightmare - where they spend about twice the amount they thought they would to renovate a house and set up a gite business which then is very slow.... or when, in another case, it doesn't work at all and the family is in great financial difficulty, not knowing what to do next.
I think there is also, often, a sense of failure that people get when they move here and it doesn't work out - they feel, in some way, as if it is they who are at fault, when so many other people are having such a great time (or appear to have). It is quite necessary to strike a bit of balance and say that, yes, it can be very hard. And if it doesn't work out, no need to feel guilty, on top of the anguish with having to go back to some kind of a life in the UK. On the other hand, I also know people who seem to have just resigned themselves to staying here, even though they are obviously not happy and hardly dare to say it (those are retired with a UK pension, so although on a budget, their daily needs are taken care of).
And then of course, there are the people who love just about everything here in France. The climate, the food, the lifestyle as they see it, the people, their house, with often a bit of land so that they can have their animals and their vegetable patch. But most of these people, as I said, have their pension as a monthly income, and some of them are pretty comfortable.
Sep 19th 2008, 7:15 pm
#81
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Re: Language the only barrier
Hi Karunia
Thanks for that very interesting article, relevant to anyone needing to make a living over here!
Language is clearly not the only barrier, seems it is only the smallest barrier...
Sue
Thanks for that very interesting article, relevant to anyone needing to make a living over here!
Language is clearly not the only barrier, seems it is only the smallest barrier...
Sue
Sep 20th 2008, 9:29 am
#82
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Posts: 825
Re: Language the only barrier
very true. it jut shows how different life is.
Sep 20th 2008, 6:55 pm
#83
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Joined: Aug 2008
Location: 32 Gers ; Between Toulouse and Auch
Posts: 1,395
Re: Language the only barrier
hi polly
I am just back online and thought id add my thought to this discussion
Firstly I know many people local to me ( toulouse) who had NO french whenthey came over and still have little... Work is a bit tricky but I work for a company teaching english ; ie no french needed. The pay is pretty low - just a second wage but i am free to look after my children on wednesdays.
( you do know that primary aged children often have all of wednesday off - depending on the school and secondary school aged children have a half day off)
Thus it would help for your husband to find work b4 you move but it can be found b4hand.
For us ( over 1yr as a family, although hubby over 4 years now) - the pros still outwiegh the cons.
pros; kids happy and generally much less tired then in uk. Also bilingual.
good quality of life - we both work much shorter hours and have more
time for our kids
toulouse a super place to live - hot in summer, cold in winter; mountains
and 2 seas close by and good links to uk
cons; lower pay ( for us) but adequate, wednesdays off for kids, officialdom
I would agree with other people that it really helps to know a bit more than you seem to b4 commiting to a new country; we had the advantage of every school holiday here for three years b4 moving over; this allowed for a much easier settling in
hope this helps
michele
I am just back online and thought id add my thought to this discussion
Firstly I know many people local to me ( toulouse) who had NO french whenthey came over and still have little... Work is a bit tricky but I work for a company teaching english ; ie no french needed. The pay is pretty low - just a second wage but i am free to look after my children on wednesdays.
( you do know that primary aged children often have all of wednesday off - depending on the school and secondary school aged children have a half day off)
Thus it would help for your husband to find work b4 you move but it can be found b4hand.
For us ( over 1yr as a family, although hubby over 4 years now) - the pros still outwiegh the cons.
pros; kids happy and generally much less tired then in uk. Also bilingual.
good quality of life - we both work much shorter hours and have more
time for our kids
toulouse a super place to live - hot in summer, cold in winter; mountains
and 2 seas close by and good links to uk
cons; lower pay ( for us) but adequate, wednesdays off for kids, officialdom
I would agree with other people that it really helps to know a bit more than you seem to b4 commiting to a new country; we had the advantage of every school holiday here for three years b4 moving over; this allowed for a much easier settling in
hope this helps
michele
Sep 20th 2008, 7:41 pm
#84
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,094
Re: Language the only barrier
hi polly
I am just back online and thought id add my thought to this discussion
Firstly I know many people local to me ( toulouse) who had NO french whenthey came over and still have little... Work is a bit tricky but I work for a company teaching english ; ie no french needed. The pay is pretty low - just a second wage but i am free to look after my children on wednesdays.
( you do know that primary aged children often have all of wednesday off - depending on the school and secondary school aged children have a half day off)
Thus it would help for your husband to find work b4 you move but it can be found b4hand.
For us ( over 1yr as a family, although hubby over 4 years now) - the pros still outwiegh the cons.
pros; kids happy and generally much less tired then in uk. Also bilingual.
good quality of life - we both work much shorter hours and have more
time for our kids
toulouse a super place to live - hot in summer, cold in winter; mountains
and 2 seas close by and good links to uk
cons; lower pay ( for us) but adequate, wednesdays off for kids, officialdom
I would agree with other people that it really helps to know a bit more than you seem to b4 commiting to a new country; we had the advantage of every school holiday here for three years b4 moving over; this allowed for a much easier settling in
hope this helps
michele
I am just back online and thought id add my thought to this discussion
Firstly I know many people local to me ( toulouse) who had NO french whenthey came over and still have little... Work is a bit tricky but I work for a company teaching english ; ie no french needed. The pay is pretty low - just a second wage but i am free to look after my children on wednesdays.
( you do know that primary aged children often have all of wednesday off - depending on the school and secondary school aged children have a half day off)
Thus it would help for your husband to find work b4 you move but it can be found b4hand.
For us ( over 1yr as a family, although hubby over 4 years now) - the pros still outwiegh the cons.
pros; kids happy and generally much less tired then in uk. Also bilingual.
good quality of life - we both work much shorter hours and have more
time for our kids
toulouse a super place to live - hot in summer, cold in winter; mountains
and 2 seas close by and good links to uk
cons; lower pay ( for us) but adequate, wednesdays off for kids, officialdom
I would agree with other people that it really helps to know a bit more than you seem to b4 commiting to a new country; we had the advantage of every school holiday here for three years b4 moving over; this allowed for a much easier settling in
hope this helps
michele
The above is very good and to the point,
But i would like if possible one little point clearing up,
When you say (officiadom) i do not follow,in which way do you mean?
Sep 20th 2008, 7:45 pm
#85
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Joined: Aug 2008
Location: 32 Gers ; Between Toulouse and Auch
Posts: 1,395
Re: Language the only barrier
sorry to be confusing!
by officialdom i meant the need to have with you 50 pieces of paper relating to every detail of your life for any appointment!
It is easy once you realise this but it took us a while to get used to
michele
by officialdom i meant the need to have with you 50 pieces of paper relating to every detail of your life for any appointment!
It is easy once you realise this but it took us a while to get used to
michele
Sep 20th 2008, 8:11 pm
#86
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,094
Re: Language the only barrier
I now see,Yes France is not a Nanny state,you have more daily control of your life.
Sep 20th 2008, 9:45 pm
#87
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,551
Re: Language the only barrier
hi polly
I am just back online and thought id add my thought to this discussion
Firstly I know many people local to me ( toulouse) who had NO french whenthey came over and still have little... Work is a bit tricky but I work for a company teaching english ; ie no french needed. The pay is pretty low - just a second wage but i am free to look after my children on wednesdays.
( you do know that primary aged children often have all of wednesday off - depending on the school and secondary school aged children have a half day off)
Thus it would help for your husband to find work b4 you move but it can be found b4hand.
For us ( over 1yr as a family, although hubby over 4 years now) - the pros still outwiegh the cons.
pros; kids happy and generally much less tired then in uk. Also bilingual.
good quality of life - we both work much shorter hours and have more
time for our kids
toulouse a super place to live - hot in summer, cold in winter; mountains
and 2 seas close by and good links to uk
cons; lower pay ( for us) but adequate, wednesdays off for kids, officialdom
I would agree with other people that it really helps to know a bit more than you seem to b4 commiting to a new country; we had the advantage of every school holiday here for three years b4 moving over; this allowed for a much easier settling in
hope this helps
michele
I am just back online and thought id add my thought to this discussion
Firstly I know many people local to me ( toulouse) who had NO french whenthey came over and still have little... Work is a bit tricky but I work for a company teaching english ; ie no french needed. The pay is pretty low - just a second wage but i am free to look after my children on wednesdays.
( you do know that primary aged children often have all of wednesday off - depending on the school and secondary school aged children have a half day off)
Thus it would help for your husband to find work b4 you move but it can be found b4hand.
For us ( over 1yr as a family, although hubby over 4 years now) - the pros still outwiegh the cons.
pros; kids happy and generally much less tired then in uk. Also bilingual.
good quality of life - we both work much shorter hours and have more
time for our kids
toulouse a super place to live - hot in summer, cold in winter; mountains
and 2 seas close by and good links to uk
cons; lower pay ( for us) but adequate, wednesdays off for kids, officialdom
I would agree with other people that it really helps to know a bit more than you seem to b4 commiting to a new country; we had the advantage of every school holiday here for three years b4 moving over; this allowed for a much easier settling in
hope this helps
michele
Personally I think Toulouse is a bit Special in this case you have only got to shift 60 Kms South to Foix or St Girons and If you dont speak French you will get No Work. and currently Airbus is laying off staff at a heavy rate. Employment that Requires no French is very Rare and I would not advise anyone thinking of taking the plunge to count on it.
Sep 21st 2008, 9:39 am
#88
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 119
Re: Language the only barrier
I too fancy the idea of moving myself and my family to the south of France but my basic French has always put me off. However I do realise that you're never really going to learn the language unless you immerse yourself into French life.
I have some friends who work in the same area of the IT industry as myself and have worked in France. They have said that freelancing contract work is not popular amongst the French whereas in the UK it is very big. Therefore a lot of implementation projects in France that require contractors tend to be English speaking projects because the French simply don't want to go contracting.
Not sure if this is the experience of anyone else on here.
Regards
David
Sep 21st 2008, 11:24 am
#89
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,551
Re: Language the only barrier
That's an interesting comment. Would that be because of the type of work available in those areas or simply the attitude of the people in those areas?
I too fancy the idea of moving myself and my family to the south of France but my basic French has always put me off. However I do realise that you're never really going to learn the language unless you immerse yourself into French life.
I have some friends who work in the same area of the IT industry as myself and have worked in France. They have said that freelancing contract work is not popular amongst the French whereas in the UK it is very big. Therefore a lot of implementation projects in France that require contractors tend to be English speaking projects because the French simply don't want to go contracting.
Not sure if this is the experience of anyone else on here.
Regards
David
I too fancy the idea of moving myself and my family to the south of France but my basic French has always put me off. However I do realise that you're never really going to learn the language unless you immerse yourself into French life.
I have some friends who work in the same area of the IT industry as myself and have worked in France. They have said that freelancing contract work is not popular amongst the French whereas in the UK it is very big. Therefore a lot of implementation projects in France that require contractors tend to be English speaking projects because the French simply don't want to go contracting.
Not sure if this is the experience of anyone else on here.
Regards
David
Cities are always easier to live in when your not Fluent with the local lingo, the downside is you in a City. Toulouse has a very nice centre Lots of history etc but I personally think the Suburbs are quite unpleasant. I read an article in a Paper not so long ago it surpasses Paris on Reported Road Rage incidents. It is One of Frances Tech Capitols though. Me I grew up in the country and that is were I want to Stay, Bollocks to a one hour commute every day.
Sep 21st 2008, 12:18 pm
#90
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,094
Re: Language the only barrier
Well I know Airbus is only taking Contractors at the moment, Basically rehiring people it makes redundant as contractors. Not an uncommon thing This happened to my wife and I with BT, Nice redundancy package come back as a higher rate Contractor but without the Benefits IE pension, Car that sort of thing.
Cities are always easier to live in when your not Fluent with the local lingo, the downside is you in a City. Toulouse has a very nice centre Lots of history etc but I personally think the Suburbs are quite unpleasant. I read an article in a Paper not so long ago it surpasses Paris on Reported Road Rage incidents. It is One of Frances Tech Capitols though. Me I grew up in the country and that is were I want to Stay, Bollocks to a one hour commute every day.
Cities are always easier to live in when your not Fluent with the local lingo, the downside is you in a City. Toulouse has a very nice centre Lots of history etc but I personally think the Suburbs are quite unpleasant. I read an article in a Paper not so long ago it surpasses Paris on Reported Road Rage incidents. It is One of Frances Tech Capitols though. Me I grew up in the country and that is were I want to Stay, Bollocks to a one hour commute every day.
How do B.T. managed now?