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Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Old May 9th 2021, 7:46 pm
  #1  
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Default Interim health insurance pre CPAM

It's giving me sleepless nights, will I really need to find 6-9k euros for a years insurance? Before I qualify for state health care. What happens if I don't get a residency visa before the 12 months is up? Is there a work around? to fast track Gite ownership? Micro entrepreneur? I can find the cash but it will have to come out of house buying budget. Help or reality check please.
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Old May 10th 2021, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by Scotchtony View Post
It's giving me sleepless nights, will I really need to find 6-9k euros for a years insurance? Before I qualify for state health care. What happens if I don't get a residency visa before the 12 months is up? Is there a work around? to fast track Gite ownership? Micro entrepreneur? I can find the cash but it will have to come out of house buying budget. Help or reality check please.
Hi, from reading your other post, you weren't intending to retire here before 2024, but it sounds as though you've advanced your plans?
Some one will come along on the cost of private health insurance before you're admitted into the French System.
Meanwhile, bear in mind that you'll need a long-term Visa from the French Consulate before you can move to France, with the corresponding conditions to comply with, esp. your regular income if you're a pre-retiree. 3 (to be confirmed) months after arrival, you'll apply for Residency at the same time as admittance into the S.S. System. For both applications to be accepted, you'll need to justify your domicile (Property Deeds/rental receipts, utility bills covering the period, ...) and, for Residency, an adequate REGULAR income (savings in the Bank wouldn't normally count, as, in the Administrations' eyes, they could be spent from one day to the next).
You could buy property and live in it while converting it into a gîte, but you wouldn't create the required regular income when you come to apply for Residency. No way of fast-tracking such a purchase - once you've found the ideal property and signed the Promesse de Vente at the Notaire's, you'd have to wait up to 3 months for the wheels of bureaucracy to turn before it's yours and you're able to start work.
Apparently it's possible to get a Visa for a Micro-Entrepreneur, but you'd need to submit a business plan which wouldn't be possible if you haven't bought property yet.
I'd recommend getting a short-term Visa (3 months) and come over to look for and buy a suitable property, then come back to work on it during the periods allowed since Brexit. When it's ready for business, you may have retired by then and you wouldn't have to worry about complying with the regular income requirement. You should also research the up-to-date Rules and Regulations on running Gîtes. How is your French?
HTH, but there are threads which deal with Visa and Gîte issues in greater detail and you should do a lot of research. Fore-warned is fore-armed!

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Old May 10th 2021, 9:57 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Hi , thanks for the detailed reply. The R&D company I work for may run out of money by the end of the year so I may be jobless 2 years sooner than anticipated. Plan was/is to move over, rent while house hunting. Income would be private pensions until SPA, house would be cash purchase. I like to pre plan everything, money will be tighter if we do it 2 years sooner. My French is useable but needs improvement. I was thinking if we buy a property with an established Gite and or set up as a micro entrepreneur we could get onto the system after 3 months. It's the crippling cost of the interim private health insurance which is bothering me, because I'm 99.99% sure I would never use it, I might as well burn £20 notes.
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Old May 10th 2021, 10:37 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

I do not know what companies you are looking but I did a search based on my wife and I in our late sixties and it was less that than 6K Obviously I do not know your age
Have a look here
https://www.fabfrenchinsurance.com/
I have not used them but there are english speakers and it seems set up for Visa medical insurance
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Old May 10th 2021, 11:18 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Thanks, that's good news. For a couple in mid 50s I did some random dummy quotes and it was coming in at 6-12k euros depending on level of cover. I will have a look at your suggestion.
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Old May 10th 2021, 6:22 pm
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by Scotchtony View Post
What happens if I don't get a residency visa before the 12 months is up?.
I don't understand what you mean by "before the 12 months is up". What 12 months? If you're intending to move to France on a British passport you need a visa before you come. Otherwise you can come as a visitor of course but you'll be limited to visits totalling not more than 90 days out of a rolling 180 in Schengen. You can't stay longer than 3 months consecutive without a visa.
Obviously you will need health insurance for your visa application but after 3 months legal residence in France as an inactif you can apply for PUMA.
Unless you have the right to work in France, gites and micro entreprises aren't really on the table for you. If you wanted to work in France you would need to apply for visa that allows you to engage in economic activity, and they're a lot harder to get than the normal visa that self supporting inactifs get but which does not allow economic activity.

Last edited by EuroTrash; May 10th 2021 at 6:28 pm.
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Old May 10th 2021, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by Listen Very Carefully View Post
I do not know what companies you are looking but I did a search based on my wife and I in our late sixties and it was less that than 6K Obviously I do not know your age
Have a look here
https://www.fabfrenchinsurance.com/
I have not used them but there are english speakers and it seems set up for Visa medical insurance
I emailed them a few weeks back, having seen them advertised on forums.
Got an instant message thanking me for my message and they'd be in touch within 24 hours.
Never heard a dicky bird.

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Old May 11th 2021, 9:35 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
I emailed them a few weeks back, having seen them advertised on forums.
Got an instant message thanking me for my message and they'd be in touch within 24 hours.
Never heard a dicky bird.
Oh, having said that, the website seems v basic and the 2 quotes they came up with was 2200 per year and 12500 euros per year!!!!
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Old May 11th 2021, 10:02 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
I don't understand what you mean by "before the 12 months is up". What 12 months? If you're intending to move to France on a British passport you need a visa before you come. Otherwise you can come as a visitor of course but you'll be limited to visits totalling not more than 90 days out of a rolling 180 in Schengen. You can't stay longer than 3 months consecutive without a visa.
Obviously you will need health insurance for your visa application but after 3 months legal residence in France as an inactif you can apply for PUMA.
Unless you have the right to work in France, gites and micro entreprises aren't really on the table for you. If you wanted to work in France you would need to apply for visa that allows you to engage in economic activity, and they're a lot harder to get than the normal visa that self supporting inactifs get but which does not allow economic activity.
I'm muddying the water a bit, I'm confident on which visa I need, we intend to live in France full time, I'm just looking for the cheapest interim insurance and quickest way into the healthcare system. With regards to gites etc, I'm guessing you need to have residency before you can set up a business? In which case how do people with holiday homes legally rent them out?
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Old May 11th 2021, 11:05 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Obviously I have had no direct dealings with FAB insurance as I have said so I cannot give any idea on how they operate I can say that we have been with Aviva France for our mutuelle for several years and have been happy with their prices and service so I do not know if that helps
If you are not in receipt of a pension or other income then getting a Visa to come to France to work is not going to be easy especially if you are looking at gites etc Basically you are going to have to convince the person at the French Embassy that you will be able to support yourself and your family and not be a burden on the state so it probably means looking at buying an up and running business and have a credible business plan So if you can do that and get your Visa you then need to apply for a Carte de Sejour at your local prefecture and go through the whole rigmarole again Frankly at the moment trying to do anything in hospitality in France is going to be difficult In my experience most gite and B and B owners in France tend to use it as a supplement to the pension or at least one of the partners works I have run a B&B and it is hard work for not a lot and I certainly would not have been able to live on the proceeds
In respect of people with holiday homes I guess you are referring to people living in the UK who rent out their holiday homes Some do it through an agency others off their own bat but in all cases they have to register the property pay any taxe de sejour and submit a French tax return to be legal
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Old May 11th 2021, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by Listen Very Carefully View Post
Obviously I have had no direct dealings with FAB insurance as I have said so I cannot give any idea on how they operate I can say that we have been with Aviva France for our mutuelle for several years and have been happy with their prices and service so I do not know if that helps
If you are not in receipt of a pension or other income then getting a Visa to come to France to work is not going to be easy especially if you are looking at gites etc Basically you are going to have to convince the person at the French Embassy that you will be able to support yourself and your family and not be a burden on the state so it probably means looking at buying an up and running business and have a credible business plan So if you can do that and get your Visa you then need to apply for a Carte de Sejour at your local prefecture and go through the whole rigmarole again Frankly at the moment trying to do anything in hospitality in France is going to be difficult In my experience most gite and B and B owners in France tend to use it as a supplement to the pension or at least one of the partners works I have run a B&B and it is hard work for not a lot and I certainly would not have been able to live on the proceeds
In respect of people with holiday homes I guess you are referring to people living in the UK who rent out their holiday homes Some do it through an agency others off their own bat but in all cases they have to register the property pay any taxe de sejour and submit a French tax return to be legal
The 90 days allowed by the short-term Visa should be sufficient to find an up-and-running Gîte to purchase, but this time-limit wouldn't cover the 3 months between signing the Promesse de Vente and the actual Property Deed (although it would be possible to give the Notaire Procuration for the latter at the first meeting). But the Gîte couldn't be operational until the OP has the Property Deed, and the Consulate wouldn't accept an application for a long-term visa without justification of ownership (and the business plan).
@Scotchtony - who are "we"? If you're married, then no problem. But France isn't a "partner-friendly" country and if you aren't legally bound, you should consult the Notaire when purchasing property/a business, as to the best ways of protecting each other in the event of separation or death.
HTH
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Old May 11th 2021, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Everyone seems to be sure that the OP will have the right to be economically active in France. I don't see it. Where's this right going to come from?
It will depend what kind of visa he gets but the type of visa that TCN inactifs/retirees usually apply for to move to France, doesn't allow them to pursue an economic activity. If that's the case how will they be able to get a siret number, register a business.
Think Americans, Australians, Chinese etc. They can't just come to France and buy/set up a little business to earn a bit of extra money. Either they come here as self sufficient, or they have a large scale business plan / a specific skill or talent that France wants to attract / an employer sponsoring them for a work permit. AFAIK it's exactly the same, now, for Brits. But if I have this wrong, I wish somebody would explain why.
https://www.legalstart.fr/fiches-pra...iete-etranger/
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Old May 11th 2021, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Everyone seems to be sure that the OP will have the right to be economically active in France. I don't see it. Where's this right going to come from?
It will depend what kind of visa he gets but the type of visa that TCN inactifs/retirees usually apply for to move to France, doesn't allow them to pursue an economic activity. If that's the case how will they be able to get a siret number, register a business.
Think Americans, Australians, Chinese etc. They can't just come to France and buy/set up a little business to earn a bit of extra money. Either they come here as self sufficient, or they have a large scale business plan / a specific skill or talent that France wants to attract / an employer sponsoring them for a work permit. AFAIK it's exactly the same, now, for Brits. But if I have this wrong, I wish somebody would explain why.
https://www.legalstart.fr/fiches-pra...iete-etranger/
I'm not sure at all. I've been playing Devil's advocate to some extent, with everything depending on whether the French Consulate would accept their visa application as "Micro-Entrepreneur" (apparently possible, but I haven't found the BE thread which mentions it), and also depending on the time-line involved. They can't apply for such a Visa without already owning an up-and-running Gîte to justify their application. Which implies coming over to find one and signing the Promesse de Vente within the 90 days allowed, then waiting until the Acte de Propriété is signed and the business registered, and only then applying for the pertinent Visa (from the UK). As hinted by LVC, would their regular income from this activity meet the "minimum ressources" requirement? (not only for the Visa, but also the Carte de Séjour).
IMO these issues should be settled before researching private healthcare insurance.
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Old May 11th 2021, 3:51 pm
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Yes but I don't see how a Brit who currently holds no kind of titre de séjour can possibly claim to be economically active in France. Since Brexit, Brits don't have that right.
I think the visa has to come first. At that stage if they want to work their business plan will be scrutinised and if it's deemed viable, and beneficial to France, then they'll get the visa and they can go ahead with their plan.
This seems to be what is needed to support an application for a visa that allows you to start a business:
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000033318595/
LISTE DES PIÈCES JUSTIFICATIVES À PRODUIRE À L'APPUI D'UNE DEMANDE DE CARTE DE SÉJOUR TEMPORAIRE OU PLURIANNUELLE PORTANT LA MENTION " ENTREPRENEUR/ PROFESSION LIBÉRALE "
I.-Documents à produire par l'étranger pour l'exercice d'une première ou d'une nouvelle activité commerciale, industrielle ou artisanale


A.-Documents à produire dans tous les cas :
1. Le formulaire CERFA " commerçant, artisan, industriel " complété ;
2. S'il réside hors de France, un extrait du casier judiciaire ou pièce équivalente du pays dont est ressortissant le demandeur ;
3. S'il réside en France, un bordereau de situation fiscale relatif au paiement de l'impôt sur le revenu en France ;
4. Le cas échéant, les pièces justificatives relatives à la capacité du demandeur à exercer l'activité commerciale, industrielle ou artisanale envisagée.
B.-Documents à produire en cas de création d'activité :
1° Documents généraux :
1. Une présentation sur papier libre du projet de création, du plan d'affaires et d'un budget prévisionnel pluriannuel ;
2. Un justificatif de l'engagement de cautionnement pris par un établissement de crédit ou une entreprise d'assurance agréée pour se porter caution et ayant leur siège en France, ou une attestation de solde créditeur d'un compte au nom du demandeur ouvert auprès d'un établissement de crédit ayant son siège social en France ;
2° Documents particuliers :
a) En nom propre :
i) En cas de création d'entreprise :
Selon les conditions d'exercice de l'activité, une copie de la promesse de bail commercial portant mention de l'activité ou du contrat de sous-location portant mention de l'activité et éventuellement de l'autorisation du propriétaire des locaux ou de toute autre pièce, relative aux locaux affectés à l'activité ou une copie du contrat de domiciliation ;
ii) En cas de reprise d'un fonds de commerce :
Une copie de la promesse ou du contrat de vente du fonds ;
iii) En cas de location-gérance :
1. Une copie de la promesse ou du contrat de location-gérance ;
2. Un extrait de l'inscription au registre du commerce et des sociétés ou au répertoire des métiers du précédent exploitant (datant de moins de trois mois) ;
3. Une copie du bail établi au nom du propriétaire du fonds ;
b) En société :
i) En cas de création d'une société de droit français :
1. Une copie de la promesse de bail commercial portant mention de l'activité ou du contrat de sous-location portant mention de l'activité et éventuellement de l'autorisation du propriétaire des locaux ou de toute autre pièce relative aux locaux affectés à l'activité ;
2. Une copie du projet de statuts de la société faisant apparaître le projet de répartition du capital social ;
ii) En cas de création d'une société de droit français, filiale d'une société étrangère :
1. Un justificatif de la nomination ou, éventuellement, une lettre d'intention de l'organe compétent pour la nomination ;
2. Une copie des statuts de la personne morale de droit étranger ;
3. Une copie de la promesse de bail commercial portant mention de l'activité ou du contrat de sous-location portant mention de l'activité et éventuellement de l'autorisation du propriétaire des locaux ou de toute autre pièce relative aux locaux affectés à l'activité ;
4. Une copie du projet de statuts de la société faisant apparaître le projet de répartition du capital social ;
iii) En cas de création d'un établissement d'une personne morale étrangère :
1. Un justificatif de nomination ou une lettre d'intention de l'organe compétent pour la nomination ;
2. Une copie des statuts de la personne morale de droit étranger.
C.-Documents à produire en cas d'insertion :
1. Un justificatif de la nomination ou, éventuellement, une lettre d'intention de l'organe compétent pour la nomination ;
2. Un extrait d'enregistrement de l'entreprise au registre du commerce et des sociétés de moins de trois mois ou un extrait d'inscription de l'activité au répertoire des métiers de moins de trois mois, selon le cas ;
3. En cas d'insertion dans une société, une copie des statuts de l'entreprise ;
4. Un bordereau de situation fiscale de l'entreprise (P 237) ;
5. Une attestation de compte à jour de l'entreprise délivrée par l'URSSAF ;
6. Si le demandeur a le statut de salarié, l'original du contrat de travail accompagné d'une copie ;
7. Si le demandeur n'a pas le statut de salarié, tout élément comptable certifié attestant de la capacité de l'entreprise à procurer au demandeur des revenus au moins équivalents au SMIC.

Last edited by EuroTrash; May 11th 2021 at 5:50 pm.
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Old May 12th 2021, 6:37 am
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Default Re: Interim health insurance pre CPAM

Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
Yes but I don't see how a Brit who currently holds no kind of titre de séjour can possibly claim to be economically active in France. Since Brexit, Brits don't have that right.
I think the visa has to come first. At that stage if they want to work their business plan will be scrutinised and if it's deemed viable, and beneficial to France, then they'll get the visa and they can go ahead with their plan.
This seems to be what is needed to support an application for a visa that allows you to start a business:
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000033318595/
LISTE DES PIÈCES JUSTIFICATIVES À PRODUIRE À L'APPUI D'UNE DEMANDE DE CARTE DE SÉJOUR TEMPORAIRE OU PLURIANNUELLE PORTANT LA MENTION " ENTREPRENEUR/ PROFESSION LIBÉRALE "
I.-Documents à produire par l'étranger pour l'exercice d'une première ou d'une nouvelle activité commerciale, industrielle ou artisanale


A.-Documents à produire dans tous les cas :
1. Le formulaire CERFA " commerçant, artisan, industriel " complété ;
2. S'il réside hors de France, un extrait du casier judiciaire ou pièce équivalente du pays dont est ressortissant le demandeur ;
3. S'il réside en France, un bordereau de situation fiscale relatif au paiement de l'impôt sur le revenu en France ;
4. Le cas échéant, les pièces justificatives relatives à la capacité du demandeur à exercer l'activité commerciale, industrielle ou artisanale envisagée.
B.-Documents à produire en cas de création d'activité :
1° Documents généraux :
1. Une présentation sur papier libre du projet de création, du plan d'affaires et d'un budget prévisionnel pluriannuel ;
2. Un justificatif de l'engagement de cautionnement pris par un établissement de crédit ou une entreprise d'assurance agréée pour se porter caution et ayant leur siège en France, ou une attestation de solde créditeur d'un compte au nom du demandeur ouvert auprès d'un établissement de crédit ayant son siège social en France ;
2° Documents particuliers :
a) En nom propre :
i) En cas de création d'entreprise :
Selon les conditions d'exercice de l'activité, une copie de la promesse de bail commercial portant mention de l'activité ou du contrat de sous-location portant mention de l'activité et éventuellement de l'autorisation du propriétaire des locaux ou de toute autre pièce, relative aux locaux affectés à l'activité ou une copie du contrat de domiciliation ;
ii) En cas de reprise d'un fonds de commerce :
Une copie de la promesse ou du contrat de vente du fonds ;
iii) En cas de location-gérance :
1. Une copie de la promesse ou du contrat de location-gérance ;
2. Un extrait de l'inscription au registre du commerce et des sociétés ou au répertoire des métiers du précédent exploitant (datant de moins de trois mois) ;
3. Une copie du bail établi au nom du propriétaire du fonds ;
b) En société :
i) En cas de création d'une société de droit français :
1. Une copie de la promesse de bail commercial portant mention de l'activité ou du contrat de sous-location portant mention de l'activité et éventuellement de l'autorisation du propriétaire des locaux ou de toute autre pièce relative aux locaux affectés à l'activité ;
2. Une copie du projet de statuts de la société faisant apparaître le projet de répartition du capital social ;
ii) En cas de création d'une société de droit français, filiale d'une société étrangère :
1. Un justificatif de la nomination ou, éventuellement, une lettre d'intention de l'organe compétent pour la nomination ;
2. Une copie des statuts de la personne morale de droit étranger ;
3. Une copie de la promesse de bail commercial portant mention de l'activité ou du contrat de sous-location portant mention de l'activité et éventuellement de l'autorisation du propriétaire des locaux ou de toute autre pièce relative aux locaux affectés à l'activité ;
4. Une copie du projet de statuts de la société faisant apparaître le projet de répartition du capital social ;
iii) En cas de création d'un établissement d'une personne morale étrangère :
1. Un justificatif de nomination ou une lettre d'intention de l'organe compétent pour la nomination ;
2. Une copie des statuts de la personne morale de droit étranger.
C.-Documents à produire en cas d'insertion :
1. Un justificatif de la nomination ou, éventuellement, une lettre d'intention de l'organe compétent pour la nomination ;
2. Un extrait d'enregistrement de l'entreprise au registre du commerce et des sociétés de moins de trois mois ou un extrait d'inscription de l'activité au répertoire des métiers de moins de trois mois, selon le cas ;
3. En cas d'insertion dans une société, une copie des statuts de l'entreprise ;
4. Un bordereau de situation fiscale de l'entreprise (P 237) ;
5. Une attestation de compte à jour de l'entreprise délivrée par l'URSSAF ;
6. Si le demandeur a le statut de salarié, l'original du contrat de travail accompagné d'une copie ;
7. Si le demandeur n'a pas le statut de salarié, tout élément comptable certifié attestant de la capacité de l'entreprise à procurer au demandeur des revenus au moins équivalents au SMIC.

This saves me looking for the link!
So, the OP must comply with all the above before applying for that particular Visa, which will take time,
OR use the 90-day periods to come over on short-term visas to find and purchase a property, to be used as a holiday home until such times as they are allowed to work (which may be never).
dmu is offline  

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