Rl246

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help as I've seen some similar issues on here before.

My estranged mother in law died in September 2013, before this no one had any contact with her since she left the UK in 2004 and moved to France with her partner.

We have received a hospital bill from when she died. We don't want anything to do with any estate but do not want to be liable for the estate.

Due to lack of contact with her, we don't know her financial position or if owned her property etc. Her children are aged 27, 20 and 17 and I understand are her heirs (she lived with a partner but wasnt married). Is there a way to check of she owned property?

We are clueless as to what to do. We don't want to spend lots on legal fees but also don't want to risk being liable for debts now or in the future.

We're hoping to renounce all liability/inheritance but am unsure if we can do this without all the estate being tied up (and costly!)

Does anyone know what we can do? Or how we might renounce inheritance and any debts?

Very grateful for any advice.

Rosie

EuroTrash

It's too late to 'renounce it' if she's already deceased.
If the legal heirs don't wish to accept the inheritance, they can refuse it.
Then it's not their problem what happens to it.
You either refuse it all, or you accept it all and pay whatever succession taxes and debts are due - you can't pick and choose.

cyrian

Hello
The following is an extract from the "Notaires de France" website.


The heirs may undertake certain types of day-to-day management such as paying rent, bills, etc. without formally accepting their inheritance, i.e. without making themselves personally liable for all the debts. In the event of unforeseen liabilities being discovered that are a serious burden on an heir's inheritance, the courts may authorise an heir to withdraw his/her acceptance.

The procedure of accepting inheritance up to a ceiling of the net assets means that an heir is only liable for debts up to the total assets inherited. Where undivided shares are concerned, simple decisions can be passed on a two-thirds majority rather than unanimity being required. In order to divide the assets, a representative may be appointed to replace a co-owner who refuses to acknowledge his/her fellow heirs’ requests.


It appears that you would only be liable for debts up to the amount you inherit.
You can have a read of this under the "Probate" section.

Good luck

Rl246

Hi

Thanks for replying

Do you know if to refuse it the estate would need to be settled first? Or could we get a solicitor to send a letter to a French authority and then any debts can try to reclaim from the estate without the family's involvement?

If that makes sense! Or do we have to pay to settle the estate and locate everything before we could refuse it?

Thanks

Rosie

dmu

Hi, you should contact the Notaire who is dealing with your mil's estate and also her surviving partner, to get a clear picture before deciding what to do. If I were you, I'd return the hospital bill and request them to send it to the partner for payment or to the Notaire. Normally hospital bills simply cover extras like single rooms, TV, etc..., not the medical side (unless your mil wasn't covered by the French S.S.).
Good luck, the French Inheritance Laws are a pain in the neck, even for the French, and you should get advice from the Notaire.

Chatter Static

Return the bill to the hospital and give them her address she shared with her partner. How exactly did the hospital end up with your address and do you live in France or the UK?

EuroTrash

Sorry, didn't read your post properly (again).

How come you received the bill, was it by any chance sent to the address in the UK where she used to live before she went to France? If so, it could be that she was still using her UK EHIC card and was obtaining her medical treatment in France on the basis of being a visitor. If this is the case, you could start by sending the bill to the NHS, and with luck they'll pay it without querying it and you'll hear no more about it.

I'm suggesting this as a possibililty because I know several people who've had hospital treatment in France using their EHICs, and the hospital has sent the bill to their home address that the NHS has on record, rather than direct to the NHS. And it seems possible because if she'd been 'in' the French system, it's odd that the bill would be sent to the UK.

dmu

Good point. Didn't the hospital send the bill to the address that she shared with her partner? How did the hospital get your address? One possibility springs to mind, and I should tread carefully here and recommend that you take our advice and return the bill to the hospital.
Consult the Notaire dealing with her estate ASAP! The three heirs need to see your mil's Will before any joint decision is made...
@ ET - the mil left the UK in 2004. I'm a trifle worried that neither of the couple had proper healthcare coverage....

EuroTrash

Quite, but if she didn't it's too late to arrange it now!
Practically speaking, if she is still covered by the NHS and never told them she lived in France, there's a fair chance that they'll just pay the bill. By their own admission they have never managed to keep track of who is entitled to cover and who isn't. It may not be 100% ethical but it would save potentially opening a can of worms, and on the grand scale of things one more bill isn't going to make a significant difference to the state of the NHS coffers.

Rl246

Thanks everyone.

We thought the partner must have given the hospital the address in England. I've never met him but he seems by all accounts to be a bit of a nightmare.

This may be a very stupid question - does a notaire get automatically appointed when someone dies in France? How would we find out who/if there was one dealing with it?

Sorry, we have no idea what we're doing as is probably obvious!

Thanks

Rosie

EuroTrash

I'm not convinced.
When you're admitted to hospital in France they usually check very carefully to make sure that the bill is going to be paid. Medical treatment is not 'free'.
I would be a tad surprised if they would agree to send the bill an address in a different country if there was no evidence of state medical coverage in that country; they would more likely want payment upfront. And if the lady had a Carte Vitale they certainly wouldn't like an address in another country.
If it was that easy - nobody would need medical insurance, we could all just make up an address for the hospital to send the bill to!
Could be wrong of course, and if it was an emergency admission they would be less inclined to refuse treatment.

dmu

You said you understand that your mil's three children are her heirs. But if they were estranged since 2004, how can you know this? In actual fact, under French Law this would be so... If she owned property in France, it would come under French law and children are "héritiers réservataires" (= heirs who can't be totally disinherited). The sale would have passed through a Notaire who would have advised her on the future Succession. You must consult this Notaire and if you have no idea who it is, or in fact whether the property is in her name, then the only solution is to contact the "nightmare" who must have been present since he moved to France with her.
If you give us a rough idea of the hospital bill, we'll know what they're charging for and can advise whether it's worthwhile to return it to the partner, with all the potential consequences, or simply pay it). This certainly isn't putting him in a good light....

Rl246

The bill's about £1800. She died of liver failure and I think she went to hospital soon before so they probably couldn't have turned her away.

I think we may try returning the bill to forward to her partner. I'm not sure how understanding the authorities are but can they hold her children responsible if she abandoned them?

Can I just check, if someone does in France, would a notaire be appointed by the state or is it the family that would/should appoint them? Is it illegal not to appoint one or would it then be up to the state to settle the estat?

Thanks

Rosie

dmu

Hi, I would say it's fair for "extras" over several weeks, but not much for the medical side.
Sorry to hear about your OH's plight 10 years ago and presume that the father was granted custody of the three children who were minors at the time. Presume also that your inlaws divorced? (otherwise extra complications arise...)
Normally, if you buy property in France, you or your heirs use the same Notaire for any subsequent "operations", e.g. Probate, as he/she has the dossier. I believe that most French parents make wills, even if they don't own property, and their Notaire keeps a copy or registers it in a Central Registry. Strictly speaking, the partner should have made contact with the Notaire, even if he isn't concerned by the Succession.
If the partner doesn't inform you which Notaire dealt with the property sale, then I would suggest looking in the Pages Jaunes, entering "Notaire" and the name of the town, and contact each one. Unless your mil lived in a large city, there won't be too many to check, as the number of Notaires is limited. Not wishing to be nosey, but can you tell us where your late mil lived? Some one on the Forum may live nearby and could pm you for details and ask around on the spot on your behalf (with a procuration, of course!)....

cyrian

Hi
You are not dealing with the UK - you are dealing with France and the laws are different.
The laws of inheritance are different i.e. it is not possible to dis-inherit a child even illegitimate - unlike in the UK. Therefore it is fair to assume that you cannot dis-inherit a parent.
The proportions of inheritance for each beneficiary are laid down in law and therefore any costs should be shared accordingly.
In the UK, the estate will pay any debts and taxes due but in France it is the beneficiaries who are responsible.
It is possible that the partner was neither married nor PACS'd to the mil and therefore will not inherit and has no responsibility to pay. He may have given your address and OH as next-of-kin.
If you renounce any inheritance then you are not responsible for the debts.
Keep a copy of the bill and return it recorded delivery.