Martinw02

Hi all.

I'd be grateful to any one who can help. What actually does it cost to live in France? We are looking to move from Australia in 12 months. I've been in Oz about 15 years and for a variety of reasons we want to find somewhere else and have a new adventure, and France has always been on my list of places we think we could settle.

I've done some research and there are a couple of anecdotal references. The closest I have come to anything definitive is within David Hampshire's "Living and Working in France" (2008 ed). As an average he says for a family of 4 the monthly budget is about 2,000 euro comprising:

Housing - 750
Food - 475
Utilities - 110
Leisure - 200
Transport - 130
Insurance - 135
Clothing 200

We want to move to rural-ish France, we are not big consumers and would imagine our needs would be pretty simple (grow a few veggies, old banger of a car, brew my own, chooks etc). That said I do not want to be on the poverty line and would still like to have the odd indulgence and a bit of travel.

I have 2 rental properties in Australia that would yield about 1500 Euro per month after all expenses. I'm not sure what the net would be after French taxes and charges, but I am assuming I would not lose a lot since it is not a large income.

We also intend to own a property outright (or at least the money to buy would be invested to cover rent in the first few years), so we would not have to consider housing costs out of the 1500. I'm in my mid-forties and my wife in her mid 30's so we could at least hope at some time in the future get some work to supplement our income, but I do not want to rely on it.

Any advice or experiences would be most welcome.

Thanks, Martin.

G-J-B

It sounds to me like you shouldn't have too many problems, and have yourself in a good position for a nice life. If you haven't got mortgage costs, and are taking 1500 euros a month from rental properties, are non-materialistic and relatively self-sufficient you'll find you're doing a lot better than most the yokels.
You wouldn't need to do much extra work if you find yourself a little short from time to time.

Ka Ora!

If you go back through the slightly older threads in this section, You will find that this has been discussed Quite a few times and one of the threads is quite recent.

As a group we all have different costs and outgoings there is possibly an average, But averages are made from extremes so best I can say is budget for 2000 euros and if you really live the way you say you do then you will be ok.

Roger O

You don't mention it explicitly, but presume from your ages and the fact that you quoted a budget for 4 that you have young children? If so, there are certain expenses for them like school books, lunches, transport, etc which would need to be included. 1500 for 4 is really quite tight - no PCs, high speed internet connection needed, etc.? Be careful and realistic - not overoptimistic then let down.. Sure it's possible, but I feel very tight..

On the other hand - assuming Brtish nationals (i.e. right to work as EU citizens) what kind of skills can you offer and can you offer it/them to the local market (in French)?

Ka Ora!

Theres 4 of us and we get by quite well on less than that, But we have lots of time on our hands and utilize the land around us. And im pretty handy with a Gun

Martinw02

Thanks a lot for your replies. I have one child who is two. The stats I quoted were the closest I could find that mathced my circumstances.

It is a hard thing to nail down this cost of living. There is a lot of information on this site and elsewhere which does give some idea of what we could expect but, given my budget is tight, being out by only 10% could be a problem, so I was hoping to have some spare rather than my budget being just enough.

One thing I also have not factored into this is that my 1500 euro is before any social charges or income tax, so not sure what I'e end up losing there.

Martin.

katana

We live in Brittany which is a fairly cheap area to live but 2000 euros won't leave you much in case of emergancys.
Our monthly outgoings are(in euros)for 2 adults & 3 kids
Mortgage/rent 500
Electric 100
Water 66
Telephone & Mobile 63
Council tax 66
Car & house insurance 121
Food 500
Fuel 120
Heating oil 50
Also you will have to take into account each visit to a doctor is 22 euros & if you have top-up health care that will be more.Also our bank charges 11 euros per month just to have a cheque book & card.
We also pay 25 euros per month for 2 school fees + 25 euros for 1 child to go to the cantine.
We read the same book before coming here & where he got his information from we don't know but reality was very different here.Work is hard to find unless you can speak french & the only jobs available are in factories,mainly meat,& they only pay the minimum wage of 8.71 euros per hour .You can only work for 38 hours per week too.
The only thing I can say is there are plenty of lovely places here that you can go for walks & the beaches are great & all are free to enjoy.
Hope this gives you some idea of what to expect.

G-J-B

What bank are you using Katana - I'd switch banks! My credit card is around 20 euros a year, but that's it. One of my friends noticed he had a bill at the end of the year for 20 euros and when he called up to find out what it was for, they said it was for a replacement cheque book. He was incredulous about a cheque book costing 20 euros, so complained and they promptly reimbursed him in full.

I find shopping at Lidl is saving me a small fortune these days, I can get by on 50 euros a week for food and still eat well. If I had a house with a plot of land I dare say I could eat for a lot less still.

Just occasionally on some months I can get by on 400 euros for my total expenditure, bills, food, socialising, etc. etc. for the whole month, and this is in Paris where things are normally damn expensive.

Herman

Not sure my advice is much use as we live in Paris which is very different to the rest of France. Our rent alone is 3,000 euros per month but thankfully my company pays it. Excluding rent we generally spend on about 2,000 per month, which includes 950 euros on a mortgage on another property, so I reckon our living costs for bills, food (2 adults, 1 toddler), travel etc etc comes to about 1,000 per month. Some months its more, rarely less I would say. I would add that to achieve that in Paris we are pretty careful with our pennies.

Roger O

Just to mention that the Crédit Mutuel factures 0.0 euro on our account to register the date they have sent us a cheque book each time. This is noted automatically on their "Cybergestion" software each time I download to my PC from the bank source. However, you need to check Crédit Mutuel Bretagne as their regional HQs don't all operate exactly the same.

donpedro1939

Hi to Martinw02,
My wife and I too live in Australia and will move to France in a couple of years. We have done a considerable amount of research into tax, health etc.
With regard to "Whats enough" a lot will depend on whether you are an EU citizen or not and whether you can join the French Health system. If you can't you will need full Health Insurance. Although there is a Joint Taxation agreement between Australia and France, France taxes on world wide income. If your properties plus investments and income are worth more than Euros 755000 then you will have to pay Wealth Tax in France. If your income is derived from 'investment' you will pay tax accordingly. The French hate paying tax and as a result there are many very legal ways of avoiding it. For instance, if you intend to reside permanently in France it may pay you to sell your properties (thus no tax in Australia) and put the funds into an Assurance Vie and that has considerable tax advantages even to the extent that you pay nothing because if the Assurance Vie gains 6% in that tax year you only pay tax on 6% of what you draw from it that also affect the Social taxes. Income in France is divided into 'Parts". That is if your income is 20000 that's 10000 for you and 10000 for your wife/partner and that is a considerable saving and if you are only paying tax on 6% of that ..........Zip!! What goes on inside an Assurance Vie is of no concern to the taxman i.e Capital gains etc .... with one exception the Wealth Tax but that really is only of concern to the seriously wealthy for the likes of most the percentage is not that great.
The upshot of it is that you need serious tax advice before you jump and with any luck you won't pay any.

Ray51

Not sure , whether you might only be naive , or this is a thinly disguised attempt to sell Life Assurance business ?
Yes , anyone can buy a Portfolio Bond ; this is an expensive exercise , involving "establishment" fees , annual management fees etc ; do you know anyone who , in the last few years has actually made a penny of earnings from their Assurance Vie ? There are , on average NIL capital gains , only losses : in unit trusts , funds , shares etc ; cash on fixed deposit pays so little nowadays , that it can't even compensate the costs which the Assurer charges to the Bond ; what a way , to squander capital , savings , survival monies , tipically handed over to the brokers/salesmen in good faith and assuming decent performances ( such as there are nonexistent , for many moons already ! )

Mitzyboy

Well that would be for me to judge .... all I see is someone trying to be helpful

donpedro1939

No I'm not in Life Insurance and I think if you look around, over the last few years most people have made great losses on their investments. I was down 55%. Yes, they can be expensive to maintain, some more than others and I don't know how much money he has available. They can be cost effective for larger sums of money. There are Assurance Vie's that you can take your normal share portfolio over to. Some limit what you can invest in, others allow you to choose from quite a long list of what they have available. It's really up to you to do your research and as the other gentleman said I was only trying to be helpful and I did say at the end that before moving he should get very good tax advice because he is dealing with a dependence on currency exchange rates and two countries that have a joint taxation agreement and require worldwide income statements for taxation purposes. Your own experience financially obviously has not been too good over the last few years ... like the rest of us!!!!

Ray51

Sorry , no offence was intended !
Just that I personally know so many people , who lost upwards of 55%-60% and more , of their hard-saved wealth and pensions , in those fantastic Assurance Vie wrappers ;
on 2nd thought : having kept one's cash in a
( safe i.e. not British/Irish/Icelandic/American... )
bank would have been so much more prudent , even if one suffered the tax on those lousy 2-3 percent p.a. , as the Euro-banks deign to pay one , nowadays ...
Cheers , mates !