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How long to wait before applying for a visa

How long to wait before applying for a visa

Old Feb 20th 2021, 8:25 pm
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Post How long to wait before applying for a visa

Hi, new to this forum so i apologize if i'm not posting in the right section.

I was wondering if anyone has any advice on visa applications. i'm from the uk, and have lived in france for 7 months now but my situation is not at all formal and i think i am going to really struggle getting a long stay visa. my plan was to wait until my situation looks better on paper before applying but i'm worried that that could then cause problems because they will see that i've been living here illegally.

to explain my situation, i'm an au pair but it isn't paid, i just have a very good living situation and lots of free time. in my free time i work freelance as a musician, right now that's mostly online production work, but again it's extremely casual, i'm not even registered as self-employed.

yes i know, it's not great! but if anyone has any. advice i would so so appreciate it. i really don't want to leave france. just not sure whether to try for the visa now with my complete lack of paper work, or hold on for a few more months and risk being an illegal here.

i speak very good french, that's probably the only thing in my favour!!
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Old Feb 20th 2021, 8:49 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

Maybe here?
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Old Feb 20th 2021, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

You've said it; your situation is pretty dodgy, and I bet there are large numbers like yourself in a similar situation. I'd suggest you start HERE. And HERE.

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Old Feb 21st 2021, 8:13 am
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

Originally Posted by zoewatson55 View Post
Hi, new to this forum so i apologize if i'm not posting in the right section.

I was wondering if anyone has any advice on visa applications. i'm from the uk, and have lived in france for 7 months now but my situation is not at all formal and i think i am going to really struggle getting a long stay visa. my plan was to wait until my situation looks better on paper before applying but i'm worried that that could then cause problems because they will see that i've been living here illegally.

to explain my situation, i'm an au pair but it isn't paid, i just have a very good living situation and lots of free time. in my free time i work freelance as a musician, right now that's mostly online production work, but again it's extremely casual, i'm not even registered as self-employed.

yes i know, it's not great! but if anyone has any. advice i would so so appreciate it. i really don't want to leave france. just not sure whether to try for the visa now with my complete lack of paper work, or hold on for a few more months and risk being an illegal here.

i speak very good french, that's probably the only thing in my favour!!
Hi, and welcome to the forum!
I thought visas were issued by the French Consulat of your own country, before you arrive....
Do you mean your application for a Titre de Séjour? You obviously arrived well before the WA deadline of 31st December, but "my complete lack of paperwork" seems to mean that your family hasn't complied with everything set out in
https://www.service-public.fr/partic...vosdroits/F473
particularly declaring you to the URSSAF and giving pay slips. These would indicate your domicile and that you're in the French Social Security System for healthcare coverage, and, apart from the lack of income, would fulfill the conditions for residency. You'd have to check the status of au pair....
If you haven't been declared, then not only you won't have any proof of residence before 1st January 2021, but your family will have problems with the URSSAF for having employed you on the black.
And there's the issue of "working" on-line without being registered as an "intermittente du spectacle". If you declare your work to justify your income since your arrival, you'll have problems with the URSSAF....
If it weren't for Covid, you could return to the UK, apply for a Visa, with the family declaring you their future employee (if this is possible for the status of au pair?) and then come back here. But then there's Covid....
Check the above links and if necessary contact the French Consulat in London to enquire about visas for au pairs (without telling them that you're already in France!).
Sorry to be a Cassandra, but your situation is tricky, and fore-warned is fore-armed. I wish you the best of luck finding a solution.
P.S. Whatever, do NOT take the risk of being illegal in France!
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 8:45 am
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

If you decide to return temporarily to the UK,

https://www.service-public.fr/partic...sdroits/F15813

https://france-visas.gouv.fr/fr_FR/w...jeune-au-pair-

https://www.aupairworld.com/fr/progr...entree-et-visa

are official and unofficial links stating that a prospective non-EU au pair must obtain a "visa long séjour" before arriving in France.
Sorry that I haven't found anything for such au pairs already settled in France before 31st December, but, as said, they would have the required paperwork to be "legal". One of the links also mentions "pocket money" which should be mentioned in the contract with the family.
HTH
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 11:15 am
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

The OP is asking about applying for a visa but I wonder if they actually mean, putting in an application for the WA residence permit.

If they actually mean visa, they would at least have to wait until France starts processing visas again. All visa applications were suspended very early in the pandemic when France closed its borders to non EU citizens/residents, because obviously there is no point issuing visas to people who are not allowed to enter France. I guess France will start accepting applications again once they have opened the borders and are confident that they will stay open, so I suppose that would mean waiting until the pandemic is over. How long it will take to clear the backlog, and whether they will be offering the same list of visas, is anyone's guess.

Saying that it's not obvious which visa the OP could apply for. AFAIK an au pair visa does not give the right to work outside the host family and working on the black whilst on a visa that expressly forbids you to work isn't a great idea. In any case if this au pair family weren't prepared to do things properly before, why would they do things properly in the future, leopards don't change their spots. Passeport talent as a musician maybe? although...

What is sad is that someone who wanted to stay in France, deliberately chose not to take a few simple steps that would have probably enabled them to do so. If the OP had just registered as an independent worker and started paying cotisations as soon as they began doing paid work, even if they weren't earning much they would have stood a fair chance of being granted a WA residence permit no questions asked. With an attestation d'hébèrgement from the host family the au pair arrangement might well have snuck past unnoticed. However, by deciding to stay beneath the radar throughout transition and beyond, they appear to have scuppered their chances of getting a WA CdS, and also probably their chances of getting a passeport talent visa any time soon. If on their application they could have shown a solid career history of musical engagements and projects they might have been lucky with a passeport talent visa, but I doubt their application would get very far with a recent 7 month total blank on their CV. Unless they can blame it on the pandemic but even then, most musicians have found ways to remain active so it wouldn't look good.

I can only assume the OP is young and didn't have a sensible adult on hand to give them good advice, hence why it looks like they are going to learn one of life's lessons the hard way, ie that actions have consequences. Especially in France where the link between rights and responsibilities is put very much to the fore. France operates on the basis that citizens have a kind of contract with the state - individuals have certain obligations, and in exchange for meeting these obligations they gain certain entitlements from the state. People have an incentive to take their personal responsibilities seriously because there are valuable personal benefits if you do. In this case, registering as self employed and paying cotisations would have been a small price to pay for healthcare and other benefits, plus most important of all, the right to live in France. If a person chooses not to meet their obligations, France has no obligations towards them and that tends to make life difficult. Having opted out, the OP's choice now seems to be either to return to the UK with a view to applying for a visa sometime future, which to avoid hassle at the border they would have to do before the end of March if they're not going to put in an application for the WA RP, or before October if they are; or, stay in France as an illegal immigrant for as they can get away with it, and face the music (as it were) when their luck runs out. If it were me I'd quit while I was winning, but it's the OP's choice.

Sorry about the moralising, I did try to keep it short but I just think it's so bad that the English education system seems not to give kids any effective civic education and this is the one of the consequences, young people and even older people get themselves into messes because they're unprepared for life outside the English cocoon where the state provides (up to a point) and expects very little of its natives in return.
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

This is such a shame and whilst the OP has been naive I put the blame fairly and squarely on the host family who have totally evaded their moral and legal responsibilities.If they had employed her properly rather than, lets be frank, used a form of modern slavery to get an au pair on the cheap then she would have been OK By doing what they have done they have deliberately left the OP with no recourse or protection My bet is that this is not the first time and will probably not be the last This current situation can only be resolved by the OP becoming legally employed OR going back to the UK and starting from square 1
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 12:51 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

The OP being a musician, I was kind of assuming that France would lose some of its attraction if she's not able to perform or work in the music industry. If she's happy to be an au pair and nothing else, that may not be too difficult once covid is over but it would be a short term solution at best Although the assumption is that the main point of being an au pair is to improve your French, which ironically appears to be the one thing that the OP has no need for.
I agree with LVC that the family has to share the blame (English again?), but, there is also the issue of why the OP thought it was a good idea not to declare her music work.
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 1:09 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

ok i really appreciate your responses dmu i will look into all those links and you've given me some ideas about how i should continue

sorry but i'm just going to chose to ignore the rest of the comments, they're really not what i need when i am trying to be more responsable and change my situation. ETwenthome... i'm not sure what your aim is with your posts... the only thing i found interesting is your point about the french vs english view of responsabilites.
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 1:19 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

Originally Posted by Listen Very Carefully View Post
This is such a shame and whilst the OP has been naive I put the blame fairly and squarely on the host family who have totally evaded their moral and legal responsibilities.If they had employed her properly rather than, lets be frank, used a form of modern slavery to get an au pair on the cheap then she would have been OK By doing what they have done they have deliberately left the OP with no recourse or protection My bet is that this is not the first time and will probably not be the last This current situation can only be resolved by the OP becoming legally employed OR going back to the UK and starting from square 1
I don't see how the OP can be, in the present state of affairs, as her "employers" aren't likely to declare in retrospect that she's already been with them for xxx months - they'd be sanctioned for not having declared her to the URSSAF within 8 days and paid the côtisations.
@ zoewatson - Not having paperwork also implies that you haven't got any healthcare coverage in the event of illness or accident, nor are you insured against causing damage/accidents.... This is a serious lack - not only for your own welfare/finances/civil liability, but also healthcare coverage is compulsory from the time of arrival in France and the date when you're accepted into the French S.S. System. Without paperwork to show that your employers have paid into the System from the start, you haven't been complying with the French regulations...
Sorry to be rubbing salt into the wound with this additional aspect, but everything must be considered....
As said, the only way to go forward is to return to the UK (the quarantine would be nothing compared to all the serious trouble which awaits you if you stay in France illegally), and apply for the Visa long séjour, presenting a proper Convention signed by the family. But as ET says, Visas won't be issued rapidly and you would have to be prepared to wait some time....
P.S. This crossed with Zoe's posts. Please don't ignore ET's comments which are always to the point. She sees all things French with the French mindset, whereas many UK expats see them with their British mindset. I'm now wondering whether your "family" is in fact British (or at least non-French), with no idea of the regulations?
Please take on board what we're saying, and blame your situation on Brexit and Covid if you're unable to assume it....

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Old Feb 21st 2021, 1:23 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

the family have said they are willing to declare in retrospect
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

sorry, i do respect what everyone is saying and if i have to go back to the uk, then i have to go back. when i said staying illegally i meant if i ended up going a month of two over not living out my life here as an illegal. and yes you are right it's a bad idea and irresponsible.
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 1:56 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

Originally Posted by zoewatson55 View Post
the family have said they are willing to declare in retrospect
That's courageous of them, knowing how l'URSSAF sanctions "fraud".
Whatever - would justification of pre-Brexit residence/healthcare coverage/income (pocket money), obtained by this complicated procedure, be sufficient for a Préfecture to accept an application for a WA-CdS?
Harping back on the healthcare/insurance aspect, you risk having/causing an accident or causing damage and/or being ill during the time that you remain in France, esp. if you're looking after children or even dog-walking. Just a thought to be taken into account....
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Old Feb 21st 2021, 3:23 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

Well OP I am flattered you found anything interesting in the ramblings of a batty old lady LOL.

However I would urge you to take on board the practical pointers about crossing the border. if you intend to. As of 1.1.21 the rules are that British citizens without the right to reside in an EU country are allowed to spend up to 90 out of 180 days in Schengen. Passports are stamped on entry and on exit. Your passport presumably has no stamp in it. If you'd entered France after 31.12.20 it would have been stamped with the date of entry, so since there is no stamp it will be assumed that you arrived before that date. Therefore, if you try to leave France more than 90 days after 31 December, and you can't show any paperwork to indicate you consider yourself to have residence rights, it will be apparent that you've overstayed and you will likely be asked some awkward questions and possibly fined. Having a black mark against your name with immigration may not help your case if and when you apply for a visa. On the other hand if you can show official confirmation that you've applied for the special WA RP, that should enable you to leave France without any problems up to 1st October. Official confirmation specifically means the automated email from the French Ministry of the Interior, that is triggered when you submit your application through the portal. So if you were to submit a CdS application with all the required attachments, you would receive this precious email and you would probably be good to stay in France until 31 September even if the card is refused, because you would have confirmation of having applied. As from 1 Oct this confirmation becomes invalid because after that date you have to have the actual residence card. Bear in mind that as dmu said you would need to return to the UK to apply for a visa, you can't make an initial application for a visa from inside France.

Re the later posts, I guess it would be entirely at URSSAF's discretion how they responded to a request to backdate an employment contract. They can't declare the embauche online in the normal way because for one thing the computer doesn't allow the start date to be backated, and for another, since you're now a third country national the computer will insist on a work permit or carte de séjour number before you can be registered as an employee, which you don't have. So it would be a case of contacting URSSAF. Unfortunately URSSAF being URSSAF they are very likely to suspect that your employers' motive for correcting things is not a sudden desire to put things right, but more the need to mitigate the consequences of doing things wrong- which isn't quite the same thing, and isn't guaranteed to be accepted as "good faith". Before you start any balls rolling, do double check whether au pairs are fully covered by the WA, because I don't recall seeing it mentioned. You don't want to start tangling with URSSAF at this stage if there's nothing to be gained by it.



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Old Feb 21st 2021, 3:40 pm
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Default Re: How long to wait before applying for a visa

ETwenthome wow i had no idea of this.... i've spoken to quite a few people, french and english and no one mentionned this so thank you and sorry my response earlier was rude, i'm just a bit overwhelmed.

but it's better i get informed now. i'm still researching but it looks like its the carte de séjour temporaire that i need to apply for as an au pair and from there i should apply for the WA permit.
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