Sausages

Bonsoir! I am an invader from the Spain board!

No seriously. I am moving to Spain next month from the UK and near to me (in the UK) there is a car on French plates which ticks just about every box I want in a car and for my requirements. My intention is to get a left hand drive car in the UK and take it to Spain owing to high second hand car prices on the continent. It would probably be better buying one out in Spain I know and that's still an option but I need to sell mine first and if this dealer takes mine in part exchange it could be the best way even given the problems of re registering which is another story.

Anyway, the question is, when I go and see the car, I believe, in doing googles etc, that I will need certain documentation for the car. Can anyone confirm the definitive list of what this is? Also, I believe somewhere along the line, there was a bereavement resulting in why the car is now here in the first place. If the owner had died and the surviving relatives brought the car back, how does that affect the ability to buy it and to then ignore France altogether and attempt re registration in Spain?

I'd really like to buy this car as it seems a decent price and the dealer isn't a normal LHD dealer so I think wants rid, so it could be a good deal if I can do the deal, but I'm just conscious of what I need to give to other authorities once it goes to Spain.

Domino

surely if the car is with a UK dealer then he is selling it with all the necessary legal documentation for the car being French if it retains its F plates ?

Its when you drive it to Spain and come to do the matriculation there you will have to ensure it is mechanically legal before you can get the SP plates.

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Sausages

Well I'm hoping he has all the necessary documents but you know what car dealers are like...I would like to know exactly what SHOULD come with the car so I can drive it away legally on the British roads before leaving for Spain. I'm fairly confident that mechanically it will be ok, it's just that paperwork seems to be the perennial nightmare. I don't want to be told "You;ll be ok" by a dealer and then a mile down the road getting it seized by the cops!!

cjm

Domino makes a valid point. Suggest you check documentation. Do they have the Carte Grise? What do its on screen stickers say. Is there a CT sticker? What date does it show? When did dealer obtain vehicle and by what route (personal sale/auction). If CT is out then driving through France will risk action by Gendarmes; perhaps registration and CT are logged and would flag up with a camera check. Can you MoT it legally in UK? Has it had UK insurance? Is there a French insurance sticker in windscreen? You would need insurance to get to Spain. Does the car have a CoC as part of the documentation. To register a RHD car in France this is needed, not sure about French car in Spain though.
If dealer can show his/her purchase is valid, then any family issues won't be valid I would assume.

Sausages

Forgive me, I am naive to French cars and their registration. What I do know is that to drive it legally on the UK roads, it has to be legal in France. So it needs Carte Grise, ok, What do I look for on the screen stickers? What's a CT sticker? What's a COC? Anything else?

I'm sorry but all these initials etc mean nothing to me. I simply need to know, in ordinary language, what documentation etc it should have, with explanations as to what any initials mean!

EuroTrash

A CT sticker is a little sticker on the windscreen, it will say CT on it and it will have an expiry date, you will work it out. A CT is the equivalent of an MOT. If you are driving through France on the way to Spain you definitely need for this to be valid as it's easy to spot if it is not.

If you drive it through France you should also have a small insurance 'vignette' on the windscreen, again the lack thereof is likely to attract attention, but without insuring it in France you will not get one of these. If you are very lucky there might be one left on the screen that looks as if it's valid.

But strictly speaking it won't be legal in any case as to be legal in France it would have to be registered in the owner's name, i.e. your name, which you are not going to do. (And you are right, if the owner as named on the log book is now deceased, that is another can of worms, but not one that you need to take the lid off if you're not going try to register it in France.)

The strictly legal route would be to re-register it in the UK but that will mean an MOT, changing headlamps etc and all for a week or two, so obviously you are not going to do that. However, strictly speaking, whilst you are a UK resident it is illegal for you drive a car that is registered in another country, on UK roads. Don't say 'that's stupid', we all know it is, but it's what the law says.

If you really want to buy this car, just make sure you have it insured, make sure you get the immatriculation certificate and a bill of sale, get it to Spain as fast as you can without getting stopped, and hope for the best.

cjm

Apologies for my use of initials. Eurotrash gives solid advice. Rock and hard place come to mind. Making a 'legal' bolt for it could backfire if France uses the UK number plate recognition system linked to the Control Technique (MoT) being in place and valid. The CT sticker gives date of expiry and has the reg number on it, also the insurance sticker, both are 5cm square.
I wonder how Spanish border officials will look on the vehicle? To and fro to UK for me with a French registered vehicle (tho RHD) has never been an issue .. but.
Is there sense in seeking to speak with the French consulate in London? They will want whistles and bells, but you will hopefully learn more. I guess the car on the forecourt isn't going to anyone else soon ..

EuroTrash

It's possible the car has been officially exported, in which case France won't give a fig. Unlikely, but possible; not sure if it would make things easier or harder if it has.

AFAIK France doesn't use number plate recognition linked up to CT/insurance databases. I believe police cars have cameras in the light bars on the roof, but only linked to the stolen vehicle database, and also to records traffic offences such as speeding or using your phone or eating while driving.

EuroTrash

If you're a French resident then you can drive a French car in any country including the UK.

What a French resident can't do, is drive a non-French registered car in France.

bigglesworth

It is probably worth having a word with the European Commission. They have been engaged in a process of simplifying car registration and re- registration across Europe for some time. (We bought a new L/H drive car in the UK for export to Spain which was temporarily registered in the UK before we left).

http://ec.europa.eu/news/economy/120410_en.htm

Have a read of the above and then just ring the Commission and ask them what you need to do. I found them very helpful.

cjm

Agree, there is though a time factor between arrival, obtaining a necessary CT before applying for French registration, which also requires a Cert. of Conformity, which most UK registered vehicles don't come with. So, needs to be sought from manufacturer (my case Opel/Vauxhall). Merely giving/having a French address was sufficient; ours was originally a holiday home; can't recall a line about a 'permanent resident', but as staying as permanent residents wasn't an issue.

EuroTrash

Yes I agree with all that - but from your previous post it sounded like you were worrying about taking your now-French reg. car to the UK. What I was trying to say was that there is no problem whatsoever with that if you can show you live in France.

cjm

My poor writing ET. No, my old 4x4 has been back to UK with and without trailer on a number of occasions. Having a check at roadside can lead to scratched heads as our UK-EU photocard licence confuses police when all other docs are French.
Worth reminding visitors to France to ensure they have every item of paperwork, MoT, Insurance doc, Registration doc etc available in the vehicle.

cyrian

Hi Sausages,
Just trying to get my head round this.
The Carte Grise (Grey Card) is the registration document and should be carried in the car to be presented on demand to the gendarmes.
The Carte Verte (Green card) is the insurance document which goes along with the ticket on the windscreen and must also be carried in the car.
Controle Technique (CT) is the MOT and is required for vehicles over 4 years old and lasts for 2 years. You must display the ticket on the windscreen.
You are a UK resident and as has been said you cannot insure a french registered car in the UK.
You are not french resident and cannot register a french registered car in France.
The car is going to Spain.
You have to establish the proper ownership of the vehicle.
Considering the costs of acquiring the car in the UK and making it legal in the UK (headlamps etc) and insuring it and then the cost of shipping it across the Channel and then paying autoroute tolls in France.
Then converting it back to be compliant in Spain.
You also have to obtain a certificate of conformity (CoC) - probably from France to present to the Spanish authorities.
Would you not be better just paying the extra for a car in Spain and taking the hit by trading your existing car into a broker in the UK.
Alternatively, enquire about the cost of transporting the car direct to Spain.
The garage may be able to offer some help / advice on this option.
I am not disagreeing with previous posts - quite the opposite - I totally agree with all the comments.
Good luck

EuroTrash

Cyrian has covered it I think.

If it was me, if I really wanted that car, I would start by finding out exactly what Spain would require in order to register it. If I was 100% sure there would be no problem once I got it to Spain, I would then find out if I could insure it (not sure how, it would take a bit of research). If I could insure it, I would buy it and wing it back to Spain as is. All the other offences are technicalities, you would likely get away with it and if not, well it's only a fine and a rap on the knuckles. But if I couldn't insure it or had any doubts over the validity of the insurance, I wouldn't consider it.

And I would need to really want that car to risk it.