InVinoVeritas

I have a friend in his late fifties who is being pursued by the Fisc for under-payment of taxes; this has been going on for a couple of years now as the wheels of justice grind exceedingly slow in France but it will likely go before a judge in the not too distant future as the two sides cannot agree.

His wife and friends think he is beginning to show early signs of Alzheimer's.

My question is how might this affect his on-going dispute should the matter go to trial as he would then have to plan the proceedings with an avocat and almost certainly be required to give evidence.

Does anyone have any experience of this kind of situation?

dmu

AFAIK, a spouse is jointly responsible for any debts, so the wife should prepare herself to replace her husband if necessary, but I'm not sure that parties give evidence in civil matters....
If their marriage régime was "séparation des biens", then it's a different matter, but the Avocat is best placed to advise.

InVinoVeritas

Yes, that is whole other kettle of fish. They married in the UK so they must be under the regime séparation de biens.

EuroTrash

Are you saying, will the fisc or the courts be overwhelmed by sympathy? Do fish have wings?
I wouldn't have thought there would be a lot of scope for giving subjective evidence. Evidence in tax appeals usually takes the form of bank statements and papertrails and references to the statues, all of which normally speak for themselves, and presumably if he put his appeal in years ago then he has already dug out all the relevant records and facts. If the appeal is getting into the esoteric realms of arguing the finer points of intepreting the rules, he's going to need an avocat in any case.

InVinoVeritas

Yes what you say is probably true ET and I don't know really know the details of the case other than it seems to hinge on having a lifestyle which would be difficult to justify on the basis of the declarations he has made. I imagine these kind of cases are difficult to prove and I don't suppose he has been overly communicative of information he considers is none of their business.

It's one thing having the detemination to argue the principles of one's case and quite another trying to remember what day it is, hence my question. I can't imgaine the fisc having any sympathy whatsoever, I mean they are at their absolute worst when someone actually dies but how do you run a hearing when the defendant doesn't fully understand the process or has lost the plot?

EuroTrash

There is enshrined in French law a formula by which the fisc are authorised to tax you on your actual lifestyle rather than your income declaration, if your declared income does not match your actual lifestyle. Details here Code général des impôts - Article 168 | Legifrance (scroll down a bit) .
So unfortunately, if the fisc have dug out the data and done the calculations and sent the bill, they've done all they need to do. Under Article 168 they can demand the tax. The ball is entirely in his court now, either he has to show why the calculations are wrong (maybe he only had one yacht not two) or prove how he managed to stretch his declared income to cover his lifestyle, or he has to pay the bill. The fisc have done their job, they don't have any more proving to do as things stand. If the defendant takes it to court and loses, either due to his marbles being loose or for whatever reason, then the tax demand stands and he will probably have wasted a lot more money in legal fees into the bargain. Or that's how it clearly seems to me.

Edit - I called him 'the defendant' because that's what you called him, but normally he wouldn't be the defendant, he would be the person bringing the appeal to court. Unless there have been developments that we don't know about, the fisc don't need to take him to court, they just need to wait until he runs out of time to appeal, then get the thumbscrews out.

dmu

Les dettes des époux : qui est responsable ?
The first paragraph indicates "solidarité" and "régime de base" and the last paragraph indicates that even in the case of "séparation des biens", each spouse is liable, jointly and severally, to pay the household's Income Tax if they make a common Tax Declaration.
The wife should therefore make the decision as to whether to pay the overdue taxes or pay for a Court procedure without any assurance of winning. IMO only an Avocat, with knowledge of all the facts, can advise her.

InVinoVeritas

Thanks ET, that's a great insight into the way this works. I can see now why the Fisc have come up with a tax bill without him really providing much in the way of information so I guess he would have to prove now that he had access to some funds which didn't need to be declared...which might be tough.

EuroTrash

On the info given, I think that's about the size of it.
Apparently the fisc do sometimes send a seemingly random OTT tax demand to a household that has consistently failed to put in an income declaration at all, the idea behind that being that they expect the person to challenge it and succeed in getting it reduced, but the fisc will still have 'won' in that the person will have been compelled disclose and prove their income. It's just a cage-rattling exercise, they don't expect the demand to be paid in full (and if it is paid without a murmur, they'll probably send a higher one next year!. But that doesn't sound to be the case here.

cyrian

Not applicable to France or the Fisc.
In the UK - the land of innocent until proved guilty, if HMRC find a problem with your tax declaration, they issue a demand which is the worst case and then you are required to prove them wrong.
Sorry nothing to do with your post but possibly the Fisc use the same tactics.

Chatter Static

I thought here they make a demand you have to pay then fight them for a refund...

cyrian

You can appeal a tax decision https://www.gov.uk/tax-appeals/overview

EuroTrash

Are we talking about France or the UK here?
Because I think that is perhaps the mistake IVV's acquaintance made - assuming that France operates the same way as the UK in these matters. It doesn't.
As a general comment I find the French system a lot more direct. The French tax rules are pretty simple and straightforward and minimalistic, whereas HMRC over-explains and over-complicates every tiny detail. I can well imagine that people get tangled up over filling in their UK tax returns and end up with a wrong assessment because the whole process is so opaque and you can go back and forth for ever - if this applies then you do that, but the rules on how to decide whether it applies or not are incomprehensible. By contrast, to my worm's eye view the French system seems pretty clear - your job is to put all the right figures in the right boxes, which are labelled and explained, and if you do that in good faith then you're in the clear.
(I shouldn't say that should I - there will be a letter in a red white and blue plastic sleeve in my letterbox tomorrow now, just to prove me wrong.)