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Eligibility for CMU

Eligibility for CMU

Old Nov 28th 2012, 7:36 pm
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Default Eligibility for CMU

Apologies for starting yet another health thread, however I have two questions. I am considering early retirement to France in my mid 50s and will receive a UK occupational pension. Am I right in saying that my pension will be taxed as income, and I will be regarded as working in France, and therefore eligible for CMU when my UK cover expires? Second question, if I do some seasonal work (eg driving a minibus between a ski resport and airport for 3 months) does this qualify me for CMU?
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Old Nov 28th 2012, 7:58 pm
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by Griff1234 View Post
Apologies for starting yet another health thread, however I have two questions. I am considering early retirement to France in my mid 50s and will receive a UK occupational pension. Am I right in saying that my pension will be taxed as income, and I will be regarded as working in France, and therefore eligible for CMU when my UK cover expires? Second question, if I do some seasonal work (eg driving a minibus between a ski resport and airport for 3 months) does this qualify me for CMU?
I dont believe a UK occupational pension would qualify you for CMU as it would be taxed at source in the UK.
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Old Nov 28th 2012, 8:15 pm
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by Ka Ora! View Post
I dont believe a UK occupational pension would qualify you for CMU as it would be taxed at source in the UK.
No. If I am resident in France, then all worldwide income is taxed in France. That is what tax residency is all about.
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Old Nov 28th 2012, 8:40 pm
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by Griff1234 View Post
Apologies for starting yet another health thread, however I have two questions. I am considering early retirement to France in my mid 50s and will receive a UK occupational pension. Am I right in saying that my pension will be taxed as income, and I will be regarded as working in France, and therefore eligible for CMU when my UK cover expires? Second question, if I do some seasonal work (eg driving a minibus between a ski resport and airport for 3 months) does this qualify me for CMU?
Here is some interesting reading for you ... ALL about French taxes and health service !

http://www.french-property.com/guide...tion/taxation/

Happy reading
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Old Nov 28th 2012, 9:19 pm
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by Griff1234 View Post
No. If I am resident in France, then all worldwide income is taxed in France. That is what tax residency is all about.
OK good luck with your move...
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 4:54 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by Griff1234 View Post
Am I right in saying that my pension will be taxed as income, and I will be regarded as working in France, and therefore eligible for CMU when my UK cover expires?
Yes -no and no.

Yes - Your pension is income so would be taxed in France accordingly. Once you have satisfied HMRC that you are French resident however you can normally arrange to have it paid tax free there.

No - Why would you think that you would be regarded as working in France if you were not ?

No - As an early retiree you will not be entitled to CMU, see here:

http://www.french-property.com/guide...arly-retirees/

Despite the EU Commission 'concerns' do not expect France to change it's tune any time soon, there are very few reports of success. Also, considering that they closed the door on people who were caught out unawares at the time, it is even less likely that they will open it for those who come later in the full knowledge of the situation.

In short then, once any S1 cover you have expires, you will have to either take up proper employment of some sort or pay for full private health insurance.

Originally Posted by Griff1234 View Post
if I do some seasonal work (eg driving a minibus between a ski resort and airport for 3 months) does this qualify me for CMU?
No - seasonal work will not get you healthcare on an ongoing basis, if at all.

I think you may need to seriously rethink your plan.
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 7:02 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Hi, CMU depends on your income, which is declared annually and if it's low enough not to be taxed, you receive an "Avis de Non-Imposition" from the Impôts.
But even with this "Avis", it isn't as simple as that to get CMU, my neighbour had to provide countless other documents and it took a long time for the Commission to accept her application.
And the whole assessment procedure starts again every year as the CMU has to be renewed annually.
http://www.cmu.fr/cmu_de_base.php
also indicates that EU citizens must have been resident in France for 3 months, which means that you have to show rent receipts, EdF bills, etc...
Bear in mind that landlords won't rent their property if the potential tenant's income is less than 3-4 times the rent, which means that you would find it difficult to rent anywhere on your Pension alone.
It's a vicious circle for you and, as suggested above, you should seriously rethink your plan.
As for seasonal work, you'd have temporary healthcover if you were salaried, you'd have cover if you set yourself up as an Auto-Entrepreneur, and you'd have problems of all types if you do airport runs on the black without a licence.
P.S. Have just read another of your threads, and your joint income is too high for you to be eligible for CMU....

Last edited by dmu; Nov 29th 2012 at 7:09 am.
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 7:25 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by Griff1234 View Post
Apologies for starting yet another health thread, however I have two questions. I am considering early retirement to France in my mid 50s and will receive a UK occupational pension. Am I right in saying that my pension will be taxed as income, and I will be regarded as working in France, and therefore eligible for CMU when my UK cover expires? Second question, if I do some seasonal work (eg driving a minibus between a ski resport and airport for 3 months) does this qualify me for CMU?
As suggested, have a rethink! All Europeans can apply to join the French health system after 3 months of residency but they MUST have sufficient resources so as not to be a burden on the French state. See here:
http://www.ameli.fr/assures/soins-et...cier_rhone.php
So in your case it will depend on your private pension and number of family members.

If you don't qualify under the 3 month residency rule, you will only qualify if you've worked in a salaried position for a specific minimum time - soz, can't remember how long! - or if you are registered as self-employed and paying French contributions.

Apart from that, it's 5 years residency I'm afraid, during which time you must have held full health cover after your S1 expires and provide 5 years' avis d'impots. Some CPAM's are requesting further proof of residency by way of title deeds to property or tenancy agreements.
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

P.S. Have just read another of your threads, and your joint income is too high for you to be eligible for CMU....[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, Sorry DMU, but I have a high(ish) private pension from the UK, + rental income from UK and am in the CMU. It is expensive though.
And indeed, one has to renew every year, but it becomes a bit of a habit, not too many problems. BTW, I am an early retired (not 60 yet).


Thinking about it, I have been in France since 1996, and joined CMU then. Maybe rules and requirements have changed ?? Maybe now, DMU might be right !

Last edited by Annetje; Nov 29th 2012 at 8:21 am. Reason: Thinking !!!
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 8:56 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

I believe the rules changed in late 2007. Inactifs are now (in theory) eligible to join after they have been legally resident for 5 years. So people who arrived in 2007 will soon be testing out the theory. Many inactifs are waiting with bated breath to see what evidence is required as proof of 'legal residence'.

Griff, don't confuse income tax with cotisations. It's the paying of cotisations (i.e. NI contributions) that makes you eligible to join the French health system, not the paying of income tax. In fact most working people pay relatively little income tax each year but many thousands of euros in cotisations. Your problem is that unless you are employed or run a business, there is no mechanism for you to pay cotisations. Hence you would need private health insurance.

Temporary work on a French employment contract would indeed get you a social security number and temporary entitlement but 3 months work a year would not give you ongoing cover once the employment ended.
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 9:40 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

There is a confusion here between CMU-B (base) and CMU-C (complémentaire).

The first is available for those who do not have access to french healthcare by any other means (ie employment in France). It is not income based, and is not free, as a percentage of income will have to be paid itno the system, 8% I think. It will cover approximately 70% of health care costs and a top up insurance is required to cover the remainder. These days (since 2007) CMU-B is not available to foreigners until they have been in France for 5 years. The first two years may be covered by UK S1 form, but other than that, private health insurance is required until you are eligible. This has nothing to do with your tax situation.

CMU-C is for those on very low incomes who are already in the french system receiving the basic 70% cover. It is means tested, renewable annually, free, and provides for 100% cover.
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 9:46 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Prior to Nov 2007 if you were not eligible for an E106 or an E121 then you just needed to get a letter from DWP stating so which then gave you entry to the French system, the abolition of that procedure is what changed and from then on it was (and is) an E106/S1 or employment or private insurance until you reach the 5 years legal residence milestone.

In relation to those who just missed the boat in Nov 2007 this next few months will be very interesting for observing exactly how the French actually play the 5 year rule and what levels of proof of adequate and continued private health care are demanded. One thing I think we can guarantee is that there will be little or no consistency across the various departments !

Joining the system under the 5 year rule will of course imply paying cotisations equalling 8% of your income after allowances.

Originally Posted by Garonne View Post
Some CPAM's are requesting further proof of residency by way of title deeds to property or tenancy agreements.
Do you have hard evidence of that, it seems a bit early yet for such claims to be surfacing ?
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 9:54 am
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by cupoftea View Post
There is a confusion here between CMU-B (base) and CMU-C (complémentaire).

The first is available for those who do not have access to french healthcare by any other means (ie employment in France). It is not income based, and is not free, as a percentage of income will have to be paid itno the system, 8% I think. It will cover approximately 70% of health care costs and a top up insurance is required to cover the remainder. These days (since 2007) CMU-B is not available to foreigners until they have been in France for 5 years. The first two years may be covered by UK S1 form, but other than that, private health insurance is required until you are eligible. This has nothing to do with your tax situation.

CMU-C is for those on very low incomes who are already in the french system receiving the basic 70% cover. It is means tested, renewable annually, free, and provides for 100% cover.
Indeed, I have CMU-B ... Pay about 6,75 % based on income (revenus fiscal de reference, mentioned on the Avis D'impots) ... And has to be renewed every year approx September.
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 12:35 pm
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

Originally Posted by cupoftea View Post
CMU-C is for those on very low incomes who are already in the french system receiving the basic 70% cover. It is means tested, renewable annually, free, and provides for 100% cover.
Thanks for specifying this.
My neighbour must be on CMU-C, then. She has been in the French system for decades...
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Old Nov 29th 2012, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: Eligibility for CMU

OK, so to try to draw this together: Although my UK private pension would be taxed as income as if I were employed, the social charges associated with private health (8%?) would not be levied, and I would not be eligible for CMU. After 5 years I would (probably) be accepted into CMU, and at that time could opt to pay CMU plus top up insurance instead of having health insurance.

So for the first 5 years, my only option is private health, which I have gleaned from other threads will cost typically between £3k and £6k for two healthy mid 50 year olds.

Have I got that right?
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