Camping/gites/B&B
Sep 7th 2015 | 5:36 am
#1
Thread Starter
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 84
Camping/gites/B&B
Some people in the past has said to me, that setting up a campsite/gite etc is a pain, too much red tape, others has said it wasnt too bad....
So which is it? or does it vary from Province to Province?
I have plans...in my head....but I'm am unsure of the pro's and con's etc as I don't yet know French ruling etc
Is it better to go with a "ready made" business and tweak it even though you know its not 100% the way you want it?
So which is it? or does it vary from Province to Province?
I have plans...in my head....but I'm am unsure of the pro's and con's etc as I don't yet know French ruling etc
Is it better to go with a "ready made" business and tweak it even though you know its not 100% the way you want it?
Sep 7th 2015 | 7:09 am
#2
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,254
From: Dépt 61
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
Campsites and gîtes are different animals with different regulations. Although it is possible to combine them, many do.
I get the impression that small campsites, of the 'camping à la ferme' type, aren't too bad as regards red tape.
It's when you want to accommodate hundreds of people, and you're off mains drainage, that you have to spend a fortune getting permission and meeting all the regulations, getting the fosse séptique arrangements to conform etc.
A ready-made business, yes but find out why it's being sold. If the location is wrong and there just isn't the footfall because the area has no attractions or has gone out of fashion, no amount of tweaking it will make it take off.
I get the impression that small campsites, of the 'camping à la ferme' type, aren't too bad as regards red tape.
It's when you want to accommodate hundreds of people, and you're off mains drainage, that you have to spend a fortune getting permission and meeting all the regulations, getting the fosse séptique arrangements to conform etc.
A ready-made business, yes but find out why it's being sold. If the location is wrong and there just isn't the footfall because the area has no attractions or has gone out of fashion, no amount of tweaking it will make it take off.
Sep 7th 2015 | 9:49 am
#3
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 443
From: North Kessock, Ross-shire Scotland and Treignac France
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
we went down the Band B route thinking that there were fewer regulations.
The extra on our house insurance was a lot less for B and B than letting the appartment as a gite.
All we did was buy some beds, bedside tables and lamps. The tourist office said the open metal "warrdrobes" were OK (We showed them a picture before buying.
The only requirements seem to be declaring your activities to the Mairee
and paying the Tourist tax.
However, we treat this as a hobby rather than an income.
We are not resident all year round and like the opportunity to speak French to our visitors. HMRC don't allow us any relief as its not letting a room in our main residence. Even if we claimed the tax relief from the French system, I reckon HMRC would still demand tax on the income we earned tax free.
Chambres d'hotes is a bit hit and miss. We are quiet in July but busier in August. Using an agency (Gites de france etc ) seems to generate more business.
Gite ownners know what they are doing in advance.
We quite like sometimes having the house to ourselves and sometimes having company at breakfast.
The comments make interesting reading
The extra on our house insurance was a lot less for B and B than letting the appartment as a gite.
All we did was buy some beds, bedside tables and lamps. The tourist office said the open metal "warrdrobes" were OK (We showed them a picture before buying.
The only requirements seem to be declaring your activities to the Mairee
and paying the Tourist tax.
However, we treat this as a hobby rather than an income.
We are not resident all year round and like the opportunity to speak French to our visitors. HMRC don't allow us any relief as its not letting a room in our main residence. Even if we claimed the tax relief from the French system, I reckon HMRC would still demand tax on the income we earned tax free.
Chambres d'hotes is a bit hit and miss. We are quiet in July but busier in August. Using an agency (Gites de france etc ) seems to generate more business.
Gite ownners know what they are doing in advance.
We quite like sometimes having the house to ourselves and sometimes having company at breakfast.
The comments make interesting reading
Sep 7th 2015 | 6:40 pm
#4
Quien no sabe
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,993
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
we went down the Band B route thinking that there were fewer regulations.
The extra on our house insurance was a lot less for B and B than letting the appartment as a gite.
All we did was buy some beds, bedside tables and lamps. The tourist office said the open metal "warrdrobes" were OK (We showed them a picture before buying.
The only requirements seem to be declaring your activities to the Mairee
and paying the Tourist tax.
However, we treat this as a hobby rather than an income.
We are not resident all year round and like the opportunity to speak French to our visitors. HMRC don't allow us any relief as its not letting a room in our main residence. Even if we claimed the tax relief from the French system, I reckon HMRC would still demand tax on the income we earned tax free.
Chambres d'hotes is a bit hit and miss. We are quiet in July but busier in August. Using an agency (Gites de france etc ) seems to generate more business.
Gite ownners know what they are doing in advance.
We quite like sometimes having the house to ourselves and sometimes having company at breakfast.
The comments make interesting reading
The extra on our house insurance was a lot less for B and B than letting the appartment as a gite.
All we did was buy some beds, bedside tables and lamps. The tourist office said the open metal "warrdrobes" were OK (We showed them a picture before buying.
The only requirements seem to be declaring your activities to the Mairee
and paying the Tourist tax.
However, we treat this as a hobby rather than an income.
We are not resident all year round and like the opportunity to speak French to our visitors. HMRC don't allow us any relief as its not letting a room in our main residence. Even if we claimed the tax relief from the French system, I reckon HMRC would still demand tax on the income we earned tax free.
Chambres d'hotes is a bit hit and miss. We are quiet in July but busier in August. Using an agency (Gites de france etc ) seems to generate more business.
Gite ownners know what they are doing in advance.
We quite like sometimes having the house to ourselves and sometimes having company at breakfast.
The comments make interesting reading
Sep 7th 2015 | 6:43 pm
#5
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 331
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
The biggest problem you have got is that none of those types of activities will provide you with an income that you will be able to survive on unless you can attract business every single day of the year. Then it will still be very hard work given the tax you would have to pay. A B&N next to the Eiffel Tower may work. But then again, if you had a house big enough for a B&B next to the Eiffel Tower it would be better to sell it and retire.
A hotel next to a busy motorway junction would work.
Your best bet (whatever your idea) is rather than buy a house with a gîte is to buy them separately...i.e...buy two houses, or a house and a flat. That way when you come to the conclusion that Gîtes don't make money you can rent it out normally or sell it. Win Win. The last thing you want is a house and a gîte on the same piece of land as you will not be able to rent it out like a normal house and they are more difficult to sell.
A hotel next to a busy motorway junction would work.
Your best bet (whatever your idea) is rather than buy a house with a gîte is to buy them separately...i.e...buy two houses, or a house and a flat. That way when you come to the conclusion that Gîtes don't make money you can rent it out normally or sell it. Win Win. The last thing you want is a house and a gîte on the same piece of land as you will not be able to rent it out like a normal house and they are more difficult to sell.
Sep 7th 2015 | 7:57 pm
#6
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,254
From: Dépt 61
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
The rules are summed up here, assuming the figures are up to date:
France: rental income tax
There is this guide about setting up campsites, you could buy it and it no doubt tells you everything you need to know, but if you read it straight through you'll probably lose the will before you get half way
http://www.editions-ipsofacto.fr/pla...-plein-air.pdf
Last edited by EuroTrash; Sep 7th 2015 at 9:04 pm.
Sep 9th 2015 | 3:45 am
#7
Thread Starter
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 84
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
It's all very interesting ... And thank you all...
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it
.... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....
That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea
On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.
Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it
.... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea
On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
Sep 9th 2015 | 4:15 am
#8
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 29,821
From: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
It's all very interesting ... And thank you all...
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it .... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....
That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.
Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it
.... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea
On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
Sep 9th 2015 | 5:47 am
#9
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,254
From: Dépt 61
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
LOL
I don't know about gîtes, but it would be tourist accommodation of some kind.
It sounds a great idea, and I think you need to talk to the local agencies that can help you along, as soon as you find your five acres. That would be the local chamber of commerce, maybe the local tourist board, maybe the communauté des communes, whoever you can get involved. One of the secrets to getting that kind of business of the ground in France is, don't try to do it in a bubble, relying on online research and trying to work everything out yourself. There are plenty of organisations around who want to see more thriving local businesses, and the more you put yourself about and tell people what you're planning to do ask for help, the more advice and support they'll offer because they'll feel they have a stake in the success of your project.
Be warned, there's a set blueprint for setting up a new business in France. I think it's seven stages or something, starting with the idea - the market research - the business plan - the funding - etc. All business support agencies will expect you to follow the blueprint, but it's worth going along with it to have the support of the advisors.
I don't know about gîtes, but it would be tourist accommodation of some kind.
It sounds a great idea, and I think you need to talk to the local agencies that can help you along, as soon as you find your five acres. That would be the local chamber of commerce, maybe the local tourist board, maybe the communauté des communes, whoever you can get involved. One of the secrets to getting that kind of business of the ground in France is, don't try to do it in a bubble, relying on online research and trying to work everything out yourself. There are plenty of organisations around who want to see more thriving local businesses, and the more you put yourself about and tell people what you're planning to do ask for help, the more advice and support they'll offer because they'll feel they have a stake in the success of your project.
Be warned, there's a set blueprint for setting up a new business in France. I think it's seven stages or something, starting with the idea - the market research - the business plan - the funding - etc. All business support agencies will expect you to follow the blueprint, but it's worth going along with it to have the support of the advisors.
Sep 9th 2015 | 6:26 am
#10
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,021
From: Alsace
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
It's all very interesting ... And thank you all...
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it .... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....
That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.
Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it
.... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea
On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
I don't know what RMH is, and wonder whether your cob huts with rocket mass heaters would comply with the health and safety regulations (particularly risk of fire). If you can explain all this in French to the organisations recommended by ET and/or to the Mairie when you ask for planning permission (make sure your land is "contructible" and, if classed as "rural", able to be converted into "habitable"), then it's a novel idea, to be compared with yourtes which are becoming popular.
Research, research, research before you launch into such a venture!
Good luck!
Sep 9th 2015 | 10:51 pm
#12
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,021
From: Alsace
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
Another bit of bureaucracy to deal with - complying with the rules and regulations for keeping goats! Google something like "élevage de chèvres"...
P.S. A detail, but you should consider providing cow's milk from a local farmer, as tea with goat's milk might not go down too well with English guests....
P.S. A detail, but you should consider providing cow's milk from a local farmer, as tea with goat's milk might not go down too well with English guests....
Sep 9th 2015 | 11:34 pm
#13
Thread Starter
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 84
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
It's all very interesting ... And thank you all...
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it .... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with goats and chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....
That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.
Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
Thank you dmu.
RHM (short for rocket mass heaters) A wood burning stove that is more efficient the a wood burning stove, and can make heated seats with almost no emissions to the atmosphere and cool (almost cold) steam coming out of the vent/chimney..... they are incredibly safe compared to wood burners...used in USA and Australia in rural properties....And used indoors or outdoors
There will be toilets and a showers in a block.... and I am hoping to get lighting to the cob huts..... the cob huts themselves are similar to the medieval properties you see today....Clay and insulated with bales of straw.....the clay makes the straw fire retardant and the straw keeps the heat in the houses.....these are not new concepts and have been used for centuries all over the world and are incredibly efficient ....
Yurts are becoming too popular in UK as well and most of Europe...I want something different, to inspire visitors/tourists into the areas to raise the local economy for the local area.... IF it works
Thank you for the tips ....will do a lot more research...
Cob houses:
My idea...please dont tell anyone or steal it .... is to own a property with around 5 (or more) acres of land....on that land will be a pool, a small paddock with goats and chooks (to supply milk and eggs). And build (subject to planning) around three or four cob huts all with rocket mass heaters, and a crafting workshop....
That way the victims.....~cough~...er...I mean...tourists....get to stay in a novel hut, cook eggs and bacon and tea on the RMH from the huts (buying the eggs and milk from us), some will be able to do felting crafts, some will be able to do willow crafts from the workshop....and anyone who doesnt want to do those items and tourist the area, bring back to the "self Catering hut" any food they wish for tea On the first day of their stay they will have a loaf and a bottle of wine, which will be sourced locally.
Not a huge enterprise I know, still in the planning stage...I guess they would be classed as gites?
I don't think they could be classed as gîtes, as they presumably won't have running water, toilets and electricity?
I don't know what RMH is, and wonder whether your cob huts with rocket mass heaters would comply with the health and safety regulations (particularly risk of fire). If you can explain all this in French to the organisations recommended by ET and/or to the Mairie when you ask for planning permission (make sure your land is "contructible" and, if classed as "rural", able to be converted into "habitable"), then it's a novel idea, to be compared with yourtes which are becoming popular.
Research, research, research before you launch into such a venture!
Good luck!
I don't know what RMH is, and wonder whether your cob huts with rocket mass heaters would comply with the health and safety regulations (particularly risk of fire). If you can explain all this in French to the organisations recommended by ET and/or to the Mairie when you ask for planning permission (make sure your land is "contructible" and, if classed as "rural", able to be converted into "habitable"), then it's a novel idea, to be compared with yourtes which are becoming popular.
Research, research, research before you launch into such a venture!
Good luck!
RHM (short for rocket mass heaters) A wood burning stove that is more efficient the a wood burning stove, and can make heated seats with almost no emissions to the atmosphere and cool (almost cold) steam coming out of the vent/chimney..... they are incredibly safe compared to wood burners...used in USA and Australia in rural properties....And used indoors or outdoors
There will be toilets and a showers in a block.... and I am hoping to get lighting to the cob huts..... the cob huts themselves are similar to the medieval properties you see today....Clay and insulated with bales of straw.....the clay makes the straw fire retardant and the straw keeps the heat in the houses.....these are not new concepts and have been used for centuries all over the world and are incredibly efficient ....
Yurts are becoming too popular in UK as well and most of Europe...I want something different, to inspire visitors/tourists into the areas to raise the local economy for the local area.... IF it works
Thank you for the tips ....will do a lot more research...
Cob houses:
Sep 9th 2015 | 11:39 pm
#14
Thread Starter
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 84
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
Another bit of bureaucracy to deal with - complying with the rules and regulations for keeping goats! Google something like "élevage de chèvres"...
P.S. A detail, but you should consider providing cow's milk from a local farmer, as tea with goat's milk might not go down too well with English guests....
P.S. A detail, but you should consider providing cow's milk from a local farmer, as tea with goat's milk might not go down too well with English guests....
Have kept goats for years here (I know its UK and that is different)....And had no problem with people buying the milk...as lots of people are allergic to cows milk
, they will of course get cows milk if they prefer it but I wont tell them its goats milk unless they notice As for the goats reg etc...they will be sorted before the business side would be set up
Sep 9th 2015 | 11:49 pm
#15
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,254
From: Dépt 61
Re: Camping/gites/B&B
Hébergements insolites definitely have a growing niche in France at the moment, and there are some terrific places
Hébergement Insolite | Premier guide d'hébergements insolites
Le guide de référence des hébergemlents insolites. Pour découvrir tous les lieux magiques.
Nuit insolite et week-end insolites : réservez en ligne
It's a very credible idea. Business advisors are going to take you seriously and they'll guide you through all the rules and regs, I don't think you'll have any problem at all getting them on board. If you big up the innovation and eco aspects you might even get a bit of start-up funding as well if you're lucky, startup aid at the moment seems to be mostly aimed at encouraging innovation and eco. Plus you'd be supporting the produits du terroir which is another box ticked. You couldn't build in a bit of recycling as well could you - build something out of old plastic bottles or scrap metal or something?
Go for it!
Hébergement Insolite | Premier guide d'hébergements insolites
Le guide de référence des hébergemlents insolites. Pour découvrir tous les lieux magiques.
Nuit insolite et week-end insolites : réservez en ligne
It's a very credible idea. Business advisors are going to take you seriously and they'll guide you through all the rules and regs, I don't think you'll have any problem at all getting them on board. If you big up the innovation and eco aspects you might even get a bit of start-up funding as well if you're lucky, startup aid at the moment seems to be mostly aimed at encouraging innovation and eco. Plus you'd be supporting the produits du terroir which is another box ticked. You couldn't build in a bit of recycling as well could you - build something out of old plastic bottles or scrap metal or something?
Go for it!
