frenchie0005

Why as we are all in the EU now are we not entitled to any social security benefits when having difficulty gaining employment and being resident here?
When in the UK it is automatic

Mitzyboy

Well ....... its a bit like the health issue as well isn't it ..... why do you have to pay for helathcare in France, Spain etc when you have paid into the system in the UK all your life. I'm afraid, even though we call this the European Union, its not really a union in the real sense of the word. OK there are certain rules that the states all have to abide by, but at the end of the day they all have their own agendas and economies to support, and the last thing any of them want is loads of immigrants coming over and claiming unemployment and housing benefits and draining the system.

I'm not so sure about all the media reports you hear about EU nationals coming to the UK and immediately signing on the dole ...... if you've ever tried to do this you'd know that there is a lengthy vetting procedure attached to claiming with very stringent criteria. Conversely I have heard UK expats in Spain proudly claiming that they are still receiving benefits in the UK by using a bogus address! Afaik the only benefits you can receive are disability related.

frenchie0005

Yes I take your point, but I am thinking more along the lines of genuine difficluty in gaining employment after having applied for jobs with no joy. Having been resident for a matter of two years or more and paid taxes etc. In England after 6 months you have an entitlement and the idea of the EU was to mutually support member states giving equal opportunity and ability to travel and work within it to those citizens. Polish, french,irish, in fact any nationality can relocate to the UK and have a support system to fall back on. Here were not rlelevent.

Mitzyboy

Its one of the main reasons that people in Spain return home ...... coming over here with 12 months worth of money to support them, and they can't find work.

I'm really not sure if, for instance, a Polish national coming to the UK can claim benefits without paying into the UK system.

jdr

If you had applied in the UK, you may of qualified for the job seekers benefit. HERE

Mitzyboy

If you have made sufficient NI contributions AND

Nationals from Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia who have been working for less than 12 months have a right to reside while they are in work and registered under the Worker's Registration Scheme. If they cease work their right to reside will usually depend on being self-sufficient and they are unlikely to qualify for income-related benefits. For more information contact your social security, Jobcentre Plus office or Jobcentre.

val50

If you are having problems you should go and talk to your nearest ASSEDIC office. They should be able to help you.

elaines

My understanding of the benefits system here in France is:


There are two French national organisations dealing with those who are unemployed and actively seeking work, namely:

ANPE - Agence Nationale Pour Emploi (job centre) and
ASSEDIC - Association Pour l'Emploi Dans l'Industrie et le Commerce (the Unemployment Office)

French Law says that In order to be registered with either or both of these organisations, you have to be ACTIVELY SEEKING EMPLOYMENT, be READILY AVAILABLE FOR INTERVIEWS and READY TO START WORK, and most importantly, be COMPLETELY LEGAL IN FRANCE.


ASSEDIC
========

Unsurprisingly, terms and conditions for receiving unemployment benefits are complex and are assessed on individual circumstances. But, one thing's absolutely certain, you must have WORKED AT LEAST 6 MONTHS OUT OF THE LAST 22 MONTHS and NOT HAVE GIVEN UP YOUR JOB BY YOUR OWN CHOICE (the exception to this last criteria is unless you have had to leave your job due to your spouse being re-located by his/her employer).

NOBODY OVER THE AGE OF 65 QUALIFIES FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT.

To register with ASSEDIC by telephone, call 0811 01 01 (--) - the last two digits in brackets are your Department number.

The ASSEDIC office will then make an appointment for you, notification ("convocation") of which you will receive by post.

At the agreed meeting, an advisor will work with you on your personal plan of action, or PAP (Projet d'Action Personalisee), to help you find employment.

If you are considered eligible for ASSEDIC payments (unemployment benefits), you will straight away be registered as as "employment seeker". You will then be given an identification number and personal code which you will need to use in all correspondance and present at all appointments.

If you prefer, you can register in person at your local ASSEDIC office, or alternatively, at the Mairie if there is no office in your area. Either way, you will need to take the following documents with you:

EU CITIZENS: Passport or Carte de Sejour stating employment rights: "toutes activites professionnelles en vertu du reglement 1612-68"; Social Security card; work contracts and testimonials (attestations) from previous employers.

NON EU CITIZENS: You will need to present a Work Visa. It may be stated on your Carte/Titre de Sejour that you have the right to work - "toutes activites professionnelles" printed on the back of the card.

After completion of your file (dossier) and the form requesting unemployment benefit (allocation de chomage) has been signed, your "dossier" will be studied after which you will receive notification of your rights.

If you are deemed to be eligible, you will subsequently receive payments on a monthly basis.

YOU MUST KEEP ASSEDIC UP-TO-DATE WITH YOUR SITUATION EVERY MONTH, WHETHER YOU FIND A JOB, BECOME PREGNANT, BECOME ILL OR CHANGE ADDRESS.


ANPE
=====

After registering with ASSEDIC, you then need to go to the ANPE (Job Centre) to find a job.

Your subscription with the ANPE is on a monthly basis and MUST be renewed to keep it current.

Importantly, YOUR APPLICATION MAY BE CANCELLED AND YOUR BENEFITS STOPPED IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW UP ON OPPORTUNITIES PRESENTED TO YOU BY THE ANPE FOR POTENTIAL EMPLOYMENT.

As with ASSEDIC, you must inform the ANPE of any changes to your personal circumstances. On top of this, the ANPE must be notified if you are going to be out of the country for more than 7 days (maximum of 35 days per year are authorised), and ALL situation changes must be made known within 72 hours.

For further information, click on the following links:
ASSEDIC
ANPE

As we all know working in France can be a challenge, for the employed and self-employed alike. One solution, though not for everyone, is to be employed by yourself!

Bear with me for a moment; you can set up a UK limited company for less than £100 and write a contract between yourself and that company making you self-employed in France. The advantages of this are that businesses are better treated in the UK and your ability to write your own terms means you to earn as much or as little as you like in France for social, medical and other charges. This isn't a con or a fiddle, it's a loophole and one that many French and German resident businesses pass through every day of the year; my French accountant is a UK registered business even though she's never been to Blighty in her life!

Of course if there's nothing you can do, build or sell (for reasons of certification, health, or otherwise) then this is of little value but if you want a fast-track to market with limited liability and short-term exposure to France's very long-term social regime it's definitely the way to go.

And I speak from personal experience when I say that.

frenchie0005

Crikey!! firstly.....and thank you for your invaluable advise which I shall certainly now take on board.Thats fab!

jc11

If you can give me a bit more info on this, I'd be very grateful. I take it you need a UK address?

frenchie0005

Did you mean me Jc?

jc11

I meant info about setting up a UK company and employing yourself in France.

elaines

I use EACBS.

Take a look at their range of services, that include Registered Offices, answering phones (though you can use the likes of Cleartone Communication to forward calls), forward mail, etc. Everything from £25 up to full company services; very professional they are, too. (Please note that I am not affiliated to EACBS in any way and you can equally Google "company formations uk" for alternatives).

How one goes from there depends upon personal circumstances (what is your profession/talent/craft/skill, etc) and whether one actually intends to do any work, or simply glande........

We offer contracts to agent commercial who want a simple way to get actif without all of the hassle of a UK company, corporation taxes and the likes. We set it up so that our agents can do as much or as little as they like in whatever way they like and so long as we cover our admin costs we're happy to live and let live. Works for them, works us and most importantly works for the GREFFE and URSSAF too; though I agree it may not work for everyone.

Jazzy n Lol

This sounds like great advice. We have just been to Assedic and have an appt for ANPE on wednesday. We have lived here for over a year and done no paid work so will be unable to receive their full allocation. However, we may receive the lesser benefit - SMI or RMI ??

Anyway, please could you explain your idea. Would the UK business have to be registered in your own name, and if so, is that not an asset? Plus, do you pay yourself a salary and to what limit? Do taxes need to be paid here or back to the UK, and after all that, will we be then eligible for the full benefit for the unemployed? Ideally, we would like to work a little, certainly not full time and still be able to afford to live and pay for our ever needy teenage daughter!

elaines

Everyone's circumstances are different and whilst I couldn't advise anyone on income versus social benefits or taxes versus the black economy it was certainly to our advantage setting up a UK company and employing ourselves.

Whether a UK company is right for you embraces a number of issues (UK taxes, French taxes, UK assets, gains taxes, double-taxation offsets and a variety of technical issues) and anyone looking at this should take professional advice.

However those in similar circumstances to ours might find that the math works out in their favour too; for those of more relaxed means our business offers contract opportunities with the actif benefits but none of the downside hassles. Whilst it would be inappropriate to discuss them here you can PM for further details.