am in need of some help
 

hi all

after years of looking around i have decided i want to move to france with the wife and 2 children (8 and 11)

Now heres the hard bit for me to deal with what will i do!!!

We dont speak french (links to where to start would be helpful unless i buy rosetta stone)
We dont really have any quals that will help us in france (wife is doing her final year in AAT accounting)

so we are looking at the usual B&B or fishing lake campsite etc.

After selling up we might have around 70k to play with and i know this aint alot but a friend of mine is willing to go into partnership if i need to and he will double that.

Am i in dreamland or as anyone done anything similar in my position.

I aint nieve enough to think i am at the bottom end of making the move but have so fell in love with france and want the kids out of the UK to grow up.

thanks

Darren

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi,
yes - you are in cuckoo land.
But that doesn't mean its not possible.
We found the michael Thomas course the best introduction to learning French, you can pick them up from Eb ay etc.
70k or even 140k isn't really enough to buy a viable business.
Lots of people will sell you a large house in the middle of nowhere , saying its suitable for B&B , how many customers really would you expect / need to come ?
Very few businesses start off sucessful they start small and grow slowly.
Bear in mind how many rooms you need for yourselves + how many you'd like to rent out !
Away from the main tourist hotspots France has a very short holiday season ?
Maybe you could buy something suitable to renovate in a touristic area ?
Regardless you will need at least a couple of years funds to support your familly whilst the business gets going - the cost of living in France is similar to the UK.
Plus you need set up funds for the business.
Play with a pen and paper for 5 minutes and work out some figures.
Recently i saw a B&B property for rent - the owner rents it to you and you sub-let to make an income -maybe that kind of oportunity would suit you better.
Anyway - Bon Chance (good luck)

Re: am in need of some help
 

Darren, there are some sage posters on this forum who will offer very good comment on your situation. At the ages your children are, being in school and learning French will be tough.

You do need to look for or have an area in mind. Then you need to research that area for the kind of business you are seeking. I do not know if your wife's qualifications would assist her in France; accountancy in France and associated tax is not the same as the UK.

Research is your key. Don't jump unless you are certain your have all ends tied up and you can make a go of it here. Language will be a difficulty, it is for me and I've been here a few years, so try whatever route you feel works for you. Suggest you learn with your wife, it may help. And, good luck.;)

Just seen Steve's post. Talks sense. Main French holiday season is July and August. For Brits a good £ to € rate would help any gite type business, but you have to promote yourself. Agree your budget, even at €140K is not high to pick up an existing business. Again, research, research. :blink:

Re: am in need of some help
 

Yyes I would agree with the previous. It all sounds a bit of a wish list at the moment. Sorry.. What parts of France are you thinking of. I suspect you may need to go to central or Northern France and probably rural for that sort of money. Living 5 miles from a shop is no fun for teenagers or you have to be a permanent chaffeur. Have you thought of maybe moving over to France and you (or your wife) commuting back to the UK for work on a cheap flight or maybe working from home part time. At least it give you a way back if everyone hates it after a couple of years. I the mean time - keep up with the lottery tickets.. Good luck

Re: am in need of some help
 

where did u see the b&b for rent please?

Re: am in need of some help
 

commuting back no a option with the kids.
Been researching for last month and was advised to look at nothern or south west for that price. Still got the options to renovate a property with land and use the land as well in some capacity. Seen some really cheap propertys and got alot of friends in the building game who could help.

Cant argue with all the comments as i have come up with them myself but i AM DETERMINED to get there somehow!

any other help is much appreciated even if negative, got 2 kids to look out for need to make sure i get this right first time.

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi Darren
You have looked at Gibralter; Oz and NZ as alternatives to the UK and have decided not to follow these ideas.
Moving to France is many times tougher simply because of the different language and different culture.
The economy is in the mire.
You have to pay for healthcare.
Setting up a business can be very expensive.
Most french don't speak english - even though they might understand you.
You don't speak the language and it can take years to get to a decent level.
You have jobs in the UK. You have free healthcare. You have social support if appropriate. You have family support(hopefully).
Life isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
I have previously posted that expats underestimate the following:
1. How difficult it is for a foreigner to get a job.
2. How difficult it is to cope in a foreign language.
3. How much money you need to bring initially. [1 -2 years living expenses]

I really try not to be too negative with posts like yours but my advice is don't do it mate.
I have to say how difficult this was to be so negative but you may potentially lose everything.

Good luck

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi i've sent you a pm regarding the B&B - nothing to do with me i just remember seeing it on a website
Good luck
Steve

Re: am in need of some help
 

like i say this has been looked at for years NZ i was accedpted but wife does not want to go as too far along with oz, Gib weather too warm and not the lifestyle that france offers. So not just clicking through countrys and picking done the homework on the easiest ones to get into first .

I know its hard and i will keep plugging away until i find an option!

Re: am in need of some help
 

cheers pal

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi, sorry to say that I have to agree with all the above comments.
- whatever system you use to learn French, you won't arrive here and be able to cope with all the administrative steps for setting up a business on your own, etc... or communicate with the locals
- the budget for healthcare for the family, including a Mutuelle, has to be considered
- children's schooling. The younger one should be OK in Primaire but the elder one wouldn't cope being thrown in at the deep end in Collège, unable to follow the lessons in French (not to mention not having all the basic general knowledge...). One solution would be for him/her to do last year of Primaire in order to get used to the Education System at least...
- I'm afraid that French accountancy and all that it covers is different from the UK, not to mention the fact that your wife, without speaking French, would have too much competition from English-speaking French Graduates. The unemployment rate is very high in France, both for professionals and employees, and French Graduates take lowly jobs to survive.
- From what I read on this Forum, one can't survive simply by running a B&B.

If it were just the two of you, you could go for it, but with 2 children dependent on you, you'd need a REGULAR monthly income of at least 1500€ to survive (just food and utilities) with only a couple of hundred euros per month from the Family Allowances and no other social benefits.
In the circumstances, it might be advisable to consider moving to a touristic area in the UK.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I'm being realistic...:blink:

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi Darren. Me and my wife have decided to move to France too. My only words of caution (although I'm no expert) would be that we have no kids, 2 houses to let here in the UK and will still be waiting 5-7 years until we have a decent amount of language behind us and have thoroughly investigated all of the pros and cons of the move.
From what I have found out so far, it's a lot more complicated than we first thought and the financial implications could be huge if not planned properly. That said, everyone needs a dream so good luck but dont jump too quickly.

Re: am in need of some help
 

hi try these websites in the pm to give you an idea of businesses for sale/rent in France
Also go to google, type in translate and use the google translator to help you understand the French

Re: am in need of some help
 

merci!

Re: am in need of some help
 

We looked at B and B about 4 years ago, in Montauban (or near there not in the town).
It was a beautiful house with 5 guest bedrooms and two rooms for the family. It was priced at 360,000e. I don't think you'll find much for 140,000e.

In our recent experience of house hunting you'll barely find a house for that. And not one big enough for having spare rooms. And if you do you'lll need the funds to do it up because at that price more than likely it will be a wreck. Maybe the north is cheaper. The 1500e on utilities and food seems about right. Then there is the top up insurance that we haven't got round to getting yet - must do that. Thats probably another 100e a month for 4

I think the new President is putting up taxes on second home incomes (Hagg900 be aware) I don't know if this is the case if you're second homes are in the UK though so if you live in France you're probably ok. I also think he is upping the tax on rental incomes, but again I don't think this is for B and B more Gites but it's worth a check as I'm guessing. I know when we looked B and B was taxed difeerently from Gites.

I think if the children are keen, they will be fine myself. If they are willing to dig in and work hard for a few months they will get there. Our two (although younger) have learnt enough to get by at School, they both just had their first reports and did very well, all green, and have gone up a year.

Good luck though, if you can get it work in my opinion it's worth it. Went back to the UK last week and we couldn't wait to get back here.

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi, I said on another thread that our Mutuelle didn't give much reimbursement (eyes and teeth) for what we pay per month, which is about 150€ FOR A COUPLE. I think 100€ for a family of 4 is being optimistic...;)
Some one else mentioned taxiing children all the time if you live in an area without public transport. They'll have the School Bus, but for their social life the OP will have to be prepared to drive them everywhere for their respective social activities on Wednesdays and at weekends until they're old enough to drive scooters (if then!). We live in a rural area and, believe me, it wasn't funny to have two destinations to cope with (taking and collecting). Maybe a minor detail, but something to take into account...

Re: am in need of some help
 

Good point, we have now moved from the village our children are at school in. So my wife has a 10km drive each way now. And they come home from lunch so thats 80km a day on school run. Wed sport is about 20km away, another 40km. It adds up. We do a tank a week at least at 75e.
Supermarket 25 mins away, any kind of DIY shop the same.

I keep meaning to look into the mutuelle and what each one offers. We have some quotes, the most expensive cover from any of them was 1800e the cheapest was 800e. For 4

Re: am in need of some help
 

For two in retirement mutuelle costs are €86 pcm and I did get some redress with a dental matter. I assume costs vary as it is a form of insurance policy; age, location, current health state. :fingerscrossed:

Re: am in need of some help
 

I really have loved living in France, but after 12 years I am heading out...for a number of reasons, however OP have you thought about buying a small cottage and restoring it over the holidays over the next few years? That way your kids could stay in school and you could gently learn French as a family. I went to a school sports thing the other day for all the schools in the area, I was asked to help a child of 11 who has been in school for the last four months, the child could speak no French and the teachers were frankly stuck, his unhappiness shone like a beacon. France is going through a bad time, there is just no work and people are scared, just where I live two companies have closed in the last couple of weeks. Don't drop your dreams of France, but do temper them with the need to proceed slowly.

Re: am in need of some help
 

It might sound like everyone is trying to put the OP off but pretty much all that has been said is true. Qualifications of almost any type are not recognised here and many "professionals" in my area (Brittany) have had to take jobs labouring in an abattoir or chicken factory to make ends meet. Having said that, you can equally come here with nothing but common sense and moderate expectations and make a go of it. The poster above who said you need at least €1500 a month to survive on made me laugh. I've never earned anything like that in my entire life. I came here with little more than the price of a second hand Ford Escort but that was enough to buy a dereclict cottage with some land. Hard work and doing without non-essentials got me to a happy state of mind and a safer more fulfilling life than I ever had in UK. Forget starting a business here. Its a nightmare of paperwork and they like to take your taxes and fees before you have earned a cent. B&B is not a way to earn a living. A little top up on the side, maybe but not a living for four people. Brittany has been a hot spot for tourism and during the massive influx of Brits ten years ago everyone bought a house & two gites thinking it would be a useful income. There were too many in the area so there wasn't enough business to sustain the numbers. It is even worse today with the downturn and Brittany Ferries prices going mental during high season. It now costs little more to take a flight somewhere abroad with full board than to drive to a gite in France. Yes, I do paint a grim picture but the OP sounds like he has the right attitude and will do whatever it takes to make his dream work. It can be done. I wish him luck.

Re: am in need of some help
 

:blink:Well good luck anyway, if you end up anywhere near Vendee let me know. One last suggestion. why dont you buy somewhere really cheap nd then keep a substantial part of your budget free for just living and settling in The last thing you will need is to be under financial pressure as well There are some bargains to be had I suspect as the french property market is much like the uk's i.e. almost dead.. and a lot of Brits are trying to sell up. If you want warm.. try the Landes area.. south of Bordeaux..

Re: am in need of some help
 

We live a simple life and get close to the 1500e every month. I think it's a good base for sums for a family of four.

Re: am in need of some help
 

This sum corresponds more or less to the official French "seuil de pauvreté" for a couple with two children, and doesn't cover a Mutuelle, trips back to the UK to see family, etc...
Maybe you haven't had three dependents to feed and clothe and ensure that the children have all the necessary school requisites and a social life.... but the OP will have, and IMHO, children's welfare should take priority...

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi, I'm new here but 9 years in France. 70k is really a non-starter - whatever you bought at that price would need renovation, and that would probably use your friends 70k as well. For a going and viable B&B/gite in this area (Limousin) you're looking at about 200k (I know of two for sale), but that's only income to supplement other income - not to live on. I don't now how anyone could make anything renting and subletting a gite. We have two permanently rented houses that bring in about 700 euros a month total, out of that we still have to pay taxe fonciere and repairs.
Can you do anything working online? That's what I do.
We have an auto-enterprise each which covers basic health care, and a mutuelle which only provides hospital cover, which is about 800 euros a year for both. With children to worry about, you do need to do your sums!
We recently had some near neighbours with two children declare themselves bankrupt and move back to Ireland, the house was repossessed and sold at auction for 100k less than they'd bought for. Don't underestimate the expense of living here!
Having said that - I love it and would never go back, but you do need to find a viable means of succeeding.

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi
Just a thought. Why don't you buy an inexpensive small holiday home in France first and see how you feel living there for extended periods? Go as often as you can and live there, not just holiday there. You can then try it out with the security of employment in the UK. You will also experience day to day issues such as home repairs, trips to the decheterie (refuse sites) and dealing with the local administration. It has opened our eyes and made us see a full time move more realistically. You will also find learning the language much easier if you are immersed in the country.

Re: am in need of some help
 

With whom please., or is that each ?

Re: am in need of some help
 

Hi Im_and_Er, it's for both, PM me for more. ;)

Re: am in need of some help
 

My 84 y o mother has a full mutuelle through Allianz for (I forget how much but under 1000 p.a.) It doesn't include dentistry or eye tests but hospital, prescriptions, some equipment for elderly living (a cushion to avoid sores for example, but not socks for low blood pressure), hospital treatment and transport. No account is taken of existing conditions, and no medical required. She's had two hospital trips since being here - one in A&E and one a weeks stay with a transfer to another hospital for tests - all with no charge. I think cost depends basically on what you want covered v. age.

Re: am in need of some help
 

I have also sent a PM with a different option...

Re: am in need of some help
 

Dreamland indeed, I regret.
All previous posters' advice is sound.
And gite and B&B prospects are really not worth considering as a means to an income.
We have had a nice (little) house in the Loire for 8 years now, and are eager to make the move there permanently.
This with a positive income from letting our UK property, no ambitions to earn a single euro from business, no dependant children, and good investments/pensions.
And so far it hasn't been financially possible.
Be Very, Very careful.