pjw27

Can you guys let me know if the following scenario would work out for me without having to deal with French social security/health care/income tax/residence paperwork and hassle?

I am a UK citizen and EU passport holder. I am self-employed (partnership not LTD company), running websites from home.

I buy a house in France.

I live in France for just under 6 months out of the year.

Each stay in France is not longer than 3 months.

While in France I work as usual, running websites from home.

The rest of the time (just over 6 months), I am living in the UK and paying UK income tax and other taxes as normal.

Given this scenario - do I have to have any dealings whatsoever with the French authorities (registering with local police, paying for health care scheme, social security, tax etc) other than property tax on the house/their equivalent of council tax?

I have searched high and low for a definitive answer for this but have yet to find one. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
Paul.

le plumber

Your buisness wont be registered in France so the French wont ask you for anything.

pjw27

Thanks,

So as long as I spend less than 183 days in France, each stay is not longer than 3 months, and my principle business and economic interests are still in the UK - I don't need to inform them of anything and the only tax I need to pay is property tax?

Just want to get it crystal clear before I go over.

Paul.

le plumber

You can be here 365 days of the year if you want. As I said, your buisness isn't registered in France so there is nothing to pay in France

pjw27

OK, but I read in several places that if I spend over 183 days out of the year in France I am considered a French domicile and would then be liable to pay income tax on my "worldwide income" - and would also have to inform the French authorities that I am in France should the 183 days in France be surpassed.

Remember that I will be working in France for the full time I am there (just under 183 days) but that work consists merely of me sitting at a computer in my own house working for my own partnership/sole trader company running websites.

Thanks in advance for your help, le plumber. Any other people who split their time half and half between France and UK? Can you just come and go as you please providing you don't surpass 183 days in a year in France?

Cheers.

dmu

Can't help in your particular scenario, but if you're paying UK Income Tax and all professional taxes in the UK, then I shouldn't think there's anything to worry about from the French Tax Office. And you'd be paying Taxe Foncière and Taxe d'Habitation like the rest of us.
On the other hand, I'd worry about the URSSAF, the body that collects Social Security, Pensions, Family Allowances, etc.. contributions based on salaries and profit-making activities.... They have their spies everywhere, denouncing "black work" and the like, so you'd have to keep a very low profile and not let the neighbours know what you're doing (and I'm not joking, we were denounced by our local spy who thought we weren't declaring our handyman. There's nothing worse than a visit from an URSSAF inspector, even if you are innocent, and you wouldn't be...).
Being of a cautious disposition and having worked for myself here for over 30 years, I'd advise you to be very wary...

G-J-B

I believe there is a time limit on how long you can be in France before you are considered a French resident and therefore subject to French taxes. Used to be 183 days, but it may have changed (I've heard rumours it's been whittled down to 3 months in a year, but can't be certain - they might just be a general EU 'guideline' that isn't applicable in France). I'm not quite sure how they would find out if you were here longer, but as DMU says it would pay to be cautious.

pjw27

But if I just made sure each stay did not surpass 3 months and total time out of a year was under 183 days - that wouldn't be a problem would it? Effectively I'd just be going there for three 2 month "holidays" during the year, but obviously while I am there I'd be working on the computer. I would still be paying income tax and national insurance in the UK.

The other thing is - both my parents (UK citizens) have lived in France full time and owned a house for 6 years - would that open up any new avenues or is it unrelated?

le plumber

It doens't make sense to be a UK buisness, registered in the UK, and be liable to pay french NI or tax From what I understand, you have a buisness you can take anywhere in the world but still be UK based, and life can be one big holiday (lucky git!)
If you're selling your services in France & to the French, however, then that would be a different matter.

If you work on you're own then you shouldn't have to worry about anything. However, if you hire a secretary (for example) who is French then you will be liable URSSAF etc if he/she works in France.

If you're really concerned then you should contact someone like the chambre des metiers/commerce. If you're french isn't up to scratch, then contact the British council in France or even the French Embassy in London.

pjw27

That's right, I wouldn't be hiring anyone or doing any work for anyone who is French. Just working from the privacy of my own home on the computer. Business still UK based, still in UK for the majority of the time plus my business partner lives in UK full time. Would still be renting a house in UK and also have another house in UK that I am renting out, so business interests still firmly in UK.

I am lucky in that I can work anywhere with an Internet connection, but it's still 12 hours a day so not exactly a holiday!

dmu

I'm seeing it from the French URSSAF's point of view. If they knew you were physically working in France, even for short periods, they would find it normal for you to contribute to some extent to the French System....
Bring your UK payslips showing NI contributions over, in case they do find out some how and catch you en flagrant délit! You might get away with it by saying that you're finishing urgent work on holiday...

val50

you might find this useful, a good explanation

http://france.angloinfo.com/countries/france/intax.asp

dmu

Just to say Hi, Val!

G-J-B

I don't know that it's that simple. I spoke to my UK accountant and he told me once I became a French resident I would be subject to French taxes even if my clientele were British. I could have set up a limited company, but seem to recall being told I could only operate for 3 years on that basis whilst in France.

I'm sure 3 month stays that didn't exceed 183 days in the year would not cause any problems, but it would be better to seek out professional advice, as I think most folk in the forum live in France more or less full time.

le plumber

Maybe I'm just thick, but really I can't see what l'Urssaf would want from somebody in that kind of situation. If he pays himself with an English payslip, then it has absolutely nothing to do with Urssaf.
There maybe something or other about declaring what you earn if you live so many days in France - this would have to be confirmed with l'Hotel des Impots. You'd simply declare what you earned, but if you would pay your tax to the inland revenu then you won't be paying more to the French.
This is really a very mobile job this person has (and G J B ) no office, no depot to rent in France, & no suppliers to pay in France- nothing but a laptop and (maybe) a mobile phone. Its a bit like me having my plumbing buisness in London, but running it in Dijon......or anyway thats the way I see it.