Yorkieabroad

We're contemplating a move to either Taipei or Beijing for 6-12 months. Primary motive is for me to improve my mandarin, but my wife will also be working around the region trying to build a small software company we've started.

I'd be interested in picking the brains of anyone out there in Taipei or Beijing, or with recent experience of living there, on things such as accommodation, day to day living, healthcare (have 2 young sons), etc.

If you;re willing to share your experience, please either post here or PM me

Thanks a lot
Yorkie

Ps - before anyone asks, we're looking into visas, but think we're pretty much sorted for Taipei (my wife still has Taiwanese passport and I should be able to get an accompanying spousal visa or failing that, 60 day rolling student visas) and Beijing (the language schools we've talked to claim they can sort out visas for me as a student plus accompanying family)

Desert Dweller

Just to be difficult- I would look at Shanghai instead of either. We have a branch office there and Beijing and the Shanghai office shows so much more growth than BJ. That is the general feeling of all China and if you look at the inbound numbers of individuals and companies from overseas they outstrip Beijing. I don't know about Taipei but know that if i were in your position I'd be Shanghai bound. It has a much better lifestyle too.

paddythepilot

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I'm no expert on Mandarin, (although I can speak Cantonese), but from people here, (Hong Kong), the general consensus is if you want to learn 'proper' Mandarin, (like wot the locals do), then Beijing is the place to be!

I stand to be corrected on the above, but if you goal is to perfect your language skills in Mandarin maybe Shanghai is not the best choice?

I would agree that Shanghai is the place for a wonderful time, business opportunities and all that......way ahead of Beijing.

However, Beijing does have all that lovely cultural history and sites.

Taipei, still an option of course, and perhaps easy for you in terms of immigration procedures, not sure how the Mandarin differs from the Mainland though?

Cheers

Desert Dweller

Good point on the Mandarin actually, a friend of mine just went on a 2 week intensive (!!) course there so he learnt true Mandarin.

Yorkieabroad

Thanks for the input - nah, not difficult at all. Shanghai was on our list to start with as well, but we crossed it off for various reasons, some more valid than others.

I used to work in the region, and regularly visited both Beijing and Shanghai - my experience was pretty similar - the Shanghai office had the major "real" activity, and the Beijing office was more a political existence. Personally I always got more of a 'kick' out of Beijing, possibly because it has more 'headline' stuff that people know about, but Shanghai was definitely the more active and developing - I remember reading somewhere that 18% of the worlds highrise cranes were in Shanghai back in 97 or 98 - hell of an impressive sight!! But we're not particularly bothered about the economy as such - my main focus is on the the language side, and the clients my wife is working on are mainly going to be elsewhere in the region anyway. Ideally we should probably be in Singpaore, from her point of view, but I know I wouldn't learn as well there.

We're not exactly at 'square one' if we go to Beijing as my former tutors have recommended various schools there, and I already have a Beijing accent anyway (well, sort of!) . To risk contaminating that with Shanghainese at this stage is probably not a good idea. I know going to Taipei is also likely to contaminate it (and I'll have to face traditional rather than simplified characters, which is all I know at the moment), but then at least my wife's family might be able to understand me!!!!

Yorkieabroad

Couple of posts since I started tyoing my last (slow fingers).

DD - how did your friend find the 2 week course? I guess they were already grounded in the basics and looking to ramp up rapidly? I have some details on 6 week intensive study programmes, and have been toying with the idea of doing a couple of those instead, and leaving the family here, but not sure about it. To be honest, I'm sure it would rapidly improve my standard, but I quite like the idea of 'living' with the language for a while as well.

Desert Dweller

I always find in Beijing that they are always saying 'turd' in their sentences.

Yorkieabroad

They all sound like they've spent too long in scrumpy country to me, but its surprising how much better I get on with the taxi drivers on the way home from the bar, rather than the way there.......if I could remain permanently pissed, I don't think I'd need any more lessons

Yorkieabroad

Moved on a bit.....

Still not getting anywhere with a family visa, so I have now applied for one of the short/intensive courses at BLCU, starting end of July. I'll be going on my own, so now looking at various options on accommodation. One is 'homestay' with a chinese family, with some possibles on lotusstudy.com. Has anyone heard anything about them, or had any experience with them at all, good or bad?

Thanks

JackTheLad

Hi Yorkie,

I might be a bit late reading your post (am usually on the Oz & NZ forum) - you seem to have made up your mind already... but hey, here're some of my thoughts...

If you are going to take lessons from language school, it really shouldn't matter too much whether you're in Beijing or Taipei or even Shanghai. Unless your Mandarin is near native, whether you speak with a slight Beijing or Taipei or Shanghai accent, whomever you speak to will always understand you if they speak Mandarin. Okay the writing is slightly different, but the mainlanders can understand most of the traditional Chinese characters, and likewise, the Taiwanese will have little problem reading simplified Chinese.

I speak Cantonese and have learnt Mandarin in secondary school. Whenever I visit the mainland, Beijing, Shanghai, or Xi'an, I am told I've got either a southern (Guandong) accent or a Taiwanese accent. I've never been to Taiwan in my life and have very few Taiwanese friends. My Mandarin speaking friends at university are all from Beijing/Shanghai but practising with them for 4 years didn't really help me much with my accent, simply because I've never been and never will be a native Mandarin speaker.

From what I've read so far, you are leaning more towards Beijing?! If that's the case, go for it! Shanghai's growing fast as the financial centre of China, but Beijing IMO is still the cultural centre and it's a better place for your young children. If you're growing your software business, both cities are great.

Best of luck with your visa!

Cheers,
Mrs JTL

Yorkieabroad

Hi there, and thanks for your post. Although I'm looking at formal classes, I'm also hoping to use and learn as we go day-to-day, and the (potential) 'problem' we have with that in going to Taipei is that my most regular exposure would probably be to my wifes relatives. The younger ones, including my wife, speak Mandarin, but most of the older ones speak Taiwanese/Hokkien, so that is the language that is used round the dinner table. My wife reckons she only understands about 75% of what is going on, so I have no chance!!

As you say, we are leaning to Beijing, and have applications in now to BLCU and Tsinghua, so fingers crossed....it seems getting accepted is unlikely to be a problem, but visas for accompanying family may be....


Yorkie

Ps - interesting comment ref the Taiwanese understanding the simplified characters - my wife is clueless - or maybe thats just her being difficult....

helinuk

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We were lucky enough to go to Beijing a couple of years ago when we lived in Singapore. My cousin was there on a yrs study at Uni learning Mandarin. Sure helped us as we went sight seeing! She stayed in UNI accommodation and we stayed in a hotel so sorry can't help on that front.
What we noticed though was that the city had had a good clean up and the taxi drivers have started to learn English ready for the Olympic bid- they won it so hope they continue to keep the place clean.
Now we are back in uk every time I hear Mandarin being spoken (yes there seem to be lots of Chinese people living here in Surrey?)I listen for the hard RRR sound at the end of the words, you're right it does sound west countryfied!
Hope you enjoy your time there.

H.

Yorkieabroad

We were last in Beijing 2 years ago too - on a trip from Singapore, where we had lived since '95 - what took you to there? I was there in oil, and met my now wife who was posted there with a software company. Could be a frustrating time to live at times (cannot lah!) but on the whole, I doubt I will ever have the same quality of life again - really miss it at times, but think it would be a mistake to try to go back now. DOesn't stop me from feeling a slight twinge of envy when we get emails from firends still there though...........

We're in the US now, which is OK, but (for me at least) far from being the wonderful existence that it is for a lot of people on this board - horses for courses I guess. The main benefit is we are close to one set of grandparent sofr our 2 kids. How did you readjust to the UK?

macness

Some of the observations are spot on!

Mandarin is spoken by almost all Chinese. While slightly varying in accent, Taiwanese, Singaporean and Shanghainese accent are easy-going and can be easily understood.

Beijing and Hong Kong accent Mandarin can be quite strong and may need a second or third repeat before one can fully comprehend if not used to the accent. Beijing accent Mandarin carries a snob appeal more than anything else that makes it popular.

Simplified Chinese is derived from Traditional Chinese in the 1960s. Most older generation Chinese will understand both form of written Chinese but the younger X and Y generation Chinese from Taiwan or Chinese may not know the other version.

Hope this helps and clarify somewhat.

haozi

Another thing you might take into consideration is that you need to learn how to write Traditional Chinese charaters in Taiwan, instead of Simplified in Beijing. Just something might be helpful to know. I admire whoever wants to learn Chinese. Best luck.