Garbatellamike

agree with that entirely

Garbatellamike

I didn't know that - thanks for the recommendation will follow it up

Red Eric

I'm really struggling to think of anything further I can suggest to help you see this from a different perspective.

If you have read everything posted on this thread and all the links and a lot else besides, it should by now be abundantly clear to you that implementing all the toxic so-called reforms demanded by the creditors is not the solution because it will not only achieve the square root of bugger-all, it will be positively damaging. It simply is not possible to keep on sucking life out of the economy, pile on another load of loans and expect the loans to be repaid in full and on time. The reforms being demanded are shrinking the economy besides being politically impossible for the current government to implement. Do they really want to topple yet another government?

Until you accept that, you will be as insistent as you have been throughout this thread that what Greece needs to do is to do everything it's told, just get on with it and lump it. Fortunately, after 2 very extreme doses of bailout this current government is not of a mind to follow the lethal prescription unquestioningly.

And you can stop pretending that Varoufakis is the problem because he has now been out of office for far longer than he was ever in it and you aplauded the appointment of his successor, who is proving to be equally as tough.

Pulaski

If you don't want austerity and you don't want Grexit, what do you want?

Red Eric

Debt restructure is what is required and not just for Greece. And a serious look at the future of the euro and how to make it work for the majority of the population that uses it.

HKG3

What you noted above are very noble aims, however, it would be a difficult thing to sell the idea of a Greek debt restructuring to the voters in the Euro zone, as every Euro zone country (big or small) could lost money as a result.

With regards to the future of the euro - given the Greek crisis, the future of the euro my move towards more political unity for Euro zone states - the Germans will not buy the idea of a common Euro zone debt unless there are strong measures like the ECB to pre-approve member state's budget to control Euro zone government expenditure. That can be a hard sell as well.

Without more political and fiscal union between Euro member states, the only way to get out of an economic downturn in theory is to reduce cost - both labour and capital.

Garbatellamike

The narrow perspective is yours Eric

Varoufakeit is, fortunately, long gone - you bought him up not me where did I say he is currently part of the problem - oh I didn't as you well know please don't add dishonesty to your evasiveness.....

There are a whole lot of things that need to be done, which include debt restructuring, debt forgiveness and deep reform and expanding the tax base etc etc

God - how difficult is it to understand Eric???? Lots to do on all sides - surely you are not so captive to your narrow political ideology that you can't see it isn't that simple?

Garbatellamike

fine analysis sir

Garbatellamike

it is much more than that

That is merely one element

Garbatellamike

A miracle maybe?

Red Eric

I haven't actually brought my political ideology into this at all.

Why, oh why do you keep on and on and on about Greece needing to implement more and more of these so-called reforms without any of the rest of it being done?

And it was you, yet again, who brought Varoufakis back into the conversation. You're obsessed with his now comparatively minor role in all of this. And continuing to be childish with the playground name-calling.

Garbatellamike

I don't it all needs to be done as I have written on numerous occasions please read my posts it's extremely clear

I repeat myself - Varoufakeit is long gone

gone = gone = gone = gone

Surely you get it now?

Red Eric

Yesterday :
Absolutely no mention of anybody else other than Greece needing to undertake actions. Despite the fact that Greece has been implementing reform after reform after reform, hundreds, thousands of reforms since the crisis began. It's what they spend their days (and frequently nights) in Parliament doing. Despite the fact that review after review has been completed and signed off. It's a pre-requisite to getting the next tranche of funds. Or not getting them, since it all bypasses Greece completely and goes directly to the creditors.

And despite the fact that they were promised debt relief talks long, long ago if they met certain conditions, which they have done, those talks have still not taken place and nor do they look likely to any time soon.

But you know all this because it's all scattered through the preceding pages of this thread.

You do indeed

Garbatellamike

Eric - you are wrong on this but not totally; they have actually met 1/3 of the conditions, another 1/3 are due this week and they are promising the last 1/3 in time for the upcoming bailout review. Hopefully they will deliver on their promises and get the relief albeit some of the things they have been asked to do are politically toxic domestically speaking hence their difficulty in meeting all the conditions they have agreed to. It is not easy for the current Greek administration for sure.

A favour if you'd be so kind? Please read my post carefully as the constant need to repeat things to you is a chore for me and boring for everyone else and is easily solved by a little more attention to detail from you.

Red Eric