QROPS

Old Dec 2nd 2011, 1:06 am
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Peter Crawley View Post
Due to the complex nature of the advice that is needed, I am sure some people will be of the same opinion. However, as this is potentially a useful financial planning tool, UK expats do need clear and understandable ( A big ask that!) information about QROPS.

Perhaps a dedicated page on this site would be useful, with one caveat-
That people that post on it declare their interest in the spirit of transparency.( I am a retired employee benefit consultant/pension consultant and I am not employed by an advisory firm).
it wouldnt be useful, it would be a device to overcome the No Advertising rules of the site.
Lets keep it that way.

If anyone wants to do such a thing then they should start their own website and advertise it in the proper manner instead of coming here trying to mug little old ladies (and men).

ISTR a couple of months ago someone here was waffling on about how he had got all his pension money back - then yesterday I read that HMRC have now appointed a task force to start investigating all these schemes and all those who have taken their money will be required to put it all back or face swingeing fines...............
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Old Dec 2nd 2011, 6:49 am
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
it wouldnt be useful, it would be a device to overcome the No Advertising rules of the site.
Lets keep it that way.

If anyone wants to do such a thing then they should start their own website and advertise it in the proper manner instead of coming here trying to mug little old ladies (and men).
Having thought about it, I think you are right. It would get swamped with advertising of one sort or another. No one wants to get mugged
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Old Dec 3rd 2011, 7:26 am
  #33  
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Default Re: QROPS

Good informative posts, Peter - thanks. It's a real tricky one, isn't it. Originally I was thinking of Singapore... and of course you know what happened there. Singapore got kicked out of the QROPs scheme by HMRC. Probably political, but no help to those who had already invested. I got off lucky there.

I may go New Zealand route. That's top of my favourites currently, for various reasons.

Or I may just stick with a UK pension, but hey, that's risky too. What if the company goes belly up? What if Sterling goes down the tube?

It's a lottery
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Old Dec 3rd 2011, 9:47 am
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
Good informative posts, Peter - thanks. It's a real tricky one, isn't it. Originally I was thinking of Singapore... and of course you know what happened there. Singapore got kicked out of the QROPs scheme by HMRC. Probably political, but no help to those who had already invested. I got off lucky there.

I may go New Zealand route. That's top of my favourites currently, for various reasons.

Or I may just stick with a UK pension, but hey, that's risky too. What if the company goes belly up? What if Sterling goes down the tube?

It's a lottery
May I suggest that such a decision by HMRC would not be political but due to a mixture of non compliances with the possibility of giving huge wedges of "protected" funds to prospective pensioners.

That is why HMRC have the task force I mentioned earlier. In pensions there is a "protected" sum that cannot be touched as well as sums that have been acquired on a tax free basis which would be liable to tax if taken/given back to the pp.

In all fields of finance, as in other matters, there is always the one who will push the boundaries, spend time looking for grey areas, chinks in armour etc etc. Usually this starts off with well paid individuals looking for a way of trying to save or gain more operational money for their wealthy clients.
In the case of QROPS this is something that has been allowed to filter down to the masses.

The fines for misbehaving in this area are punitive, just give HMRC a while and they will come knocking.

rgds
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Old Dec 3rd 2011, 12:58 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: QROPS

Not disputing what you say but, having lived in both UK and Singapore, I know which country is the more developed, and has the safest banking system and it ain't UK I'm afraid.
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Old Dec 3rd 2011, 1:12 pm
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
Not disputing what you say but, having lived in both UK and Singapore, I know which country is the more developed, and has the safest banking system and it ain't UK I'm afraid.
Hi There, you may remember our earlier conversations on the FE section of the Forum, and I have lived in SP as well, although in the RN rather than as a Civvie.

And I totally agree with you, SP is the linchpin in ASEAN and and the term Tiger Economy truly relates to the Tiger City.
A friend and former work colleague has recently moved out there for work and I cannot stop him talking about how much better it is.

Notwithstanding, it isnt the system that is at fault but the "get rich quick" merchants who had to move offshore and are again being moved on from places like Gibraltar and Malta as their "boiler plate" businesses for rooking the gullible have been closed down.
All they will do is bring their poor reputation with them to tarnish a beautiful place....

kind regards
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Old Dec 3rd 2011, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
ISTR a couple of months ago someone here was waffling on about how he had got all his pension money back - then yesterday I read that HMRC have now appointed a task force to start investigating all these schemes and all those who have taken their money will be required to put it all back or face swingeing fines...............
ISTR ?

Have got a link for that HMRC info. I well recall the thread you mention, it's in the Ireland section is it not ?

EDIT: Found the info here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...OPS-abuse.html

Here's hoping that the poster in the Ireland section doesn't come to rue his very public promotion of the scheme he took advantage of.

Last edited by Im_and_Er; Dec 3rd 2011 at 3:53 pm.
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Old Dec 3rd 2011, 3:53 pm
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Im_and_Er View Post
ISTR ?

Have got a link for that HMRC info. I well recall the thread you mention, it's in the Ireland section is it not ?
I Seem To Recall
i have been working on chats and teleprinter ccts for more years than Marconi, infact he was my office boy but I sacked him for spending too much time faffing about with teknoledgy and not making my tea.

ISTR it was something I read a couple of days ago in The Times, but as most things from that newspaper are on the other side of a sign-in I don't bother to take notes anymore.
Perhaps there is a mention of it in the Ireland forum, I believe that is where the biggest promises of repayments etc of pensions were made

sorry to not be too helpful, normally I am over helpful, but in this instance as I am in the middle of moving to another country I am not getting time to finish reading the paper every day, letalone keep useful notes

KR (kind regards)
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Old Dec 4th 2011, 6:01 am
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Im_and_Er View Post
ISTR ?

Have got a link for that HMRC info. I well recall the thread you mention, it's in the Ireland section is it not ?

EDIT: Found the info here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...OPS-abuse.html

Here's hoping that the poster in the Ireland section doesn't come to rue his very public promotion of the scheme he took advantage of.
Thanks for that link. Geez.... it really smacks of Big Brother watching, doesn't it.
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Old Dec 4th 2011, 8:21 am
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
Thanks for that link. Geez.... it really smacks of Big Brother watching, doesn't it.
I suppose you could say that, but, the money that went in there was untaxed and also there would be "govt" money from things like serps, 2nd pension, and other things that are supposed to be ring-fenced to ensure the individual has money to live on later in life....

the theory behind QROPS sounds fine, but as Mitzy said on another thread, they are not something for everyone as everyones circumstances are different. Further, as I said at that time Caveat Emptor.

This is one of those things that brings out those who live on the sidelines, catching the gullible before running to the next offshore paradise.

I can remember the days when money was too tight to mention, when I had £10 to last me 18days to next payday and wife and daughter to feed.
I don't give my money to anyone lightly.

rgds
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Old Dec 4th 2011, 11:48 am
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Default Re: QROPS

It's quite simple. If it seems too good to be true, then it is. HMRC will simply not allow you to take all your pension monies, on which you have received tax relief, in cash. Those have that done such a thing might want to keep looking over their shoulders...

It's too important an issue not to take proper advice. I mean from a properly qualified adviser who actually understands the issues, the consequences and has an interest is giving the right advice, rather than just taking a load of commission never to be seen again. Good luck! (There aren't many of us around.)
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Old Dec 4th 2011, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by bakedbean View Post
Geez.... it really smacks of Big Brother watching, doesn't it.
I don't agree.

The only reason QROPS exist is because they comply with HMRC rules principal amongst which is that no more than 30% may be released as a lump sum with the balance used to provide a regular pension income. Nowhere is there any provision for 100% encashment and any prospective QROPS provider who openly boasted of it would be refused HMRC approval.

The handful of providers who currently do offer it are taking advantage of loopholes they have found in the Australian and NZ systems which allow 100%encashment for some of their own domestic schemes and whilst HMRC are aware of this, and for whatever reason have thus far chosen to take no action, this may be changing with this new, (unconfirmed) task force.

If they decide that those schemes have broken even the spirit of QROPS never mind the rules, then they can retrospectively apply sanctions which can, and very likely would, involve a 40% tax charge on the clients plus a 15% penalty on top making potential total charge of 55%.

One thing I don't understand is how people are getting away with banking the sort of sums we are talking about without raising red flags and being taxed on them. Relistically we are talking here of sums in excess of £100k as below that it's debatable whether a QROPS is an appropriate vehicle and certainly if you deposited that sort of sum in a UK bank you could expect a letter from HMRC requesting information as to it's source. Similarly in spain and France it would have to be declared as part of your world wide income and taxed accordingly.
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Old Dec 5th 2011, 6:58 am
  #43  
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Im_and_Er View Post
ISTR ?

Have got a link for that HMRC info. I well recall the thread you mention, it's in the Ireland section is it not ?

EDIT: Found the info here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...OPS-abuse.html

Here's hoping that the poster in the Ireland section doesn't come to rue his very public promotion of the scheme he took advantage of.
I sometimes wonder if HMRC script their rules in the Tower of Babel. There are so many different opinions from people, all of whom think they are right.

If HMRC are targetting QROPS, what are they targetting? Is it the adviser or the client? My feeling is that it is a case of Caveat Emptor as the client would be the target.

However, if a person follows the UK , and New Zealand , QROPS rules to the letter of their respective laws, how can HMRC attack this? I don't know the answer as it would seem that no law is broken. Whether this is a legitimate use of a QROPS is another matter. I have a book under the foot of my piano as the leg is broken, that is not a legitimate use of a book. However, it is not illegal.

Is this more a case of HMRC looking to find chinks in the armour of QROPS that don't follow the rules? Where then does the investor stand if he/she followed all the rules but others in the same QROPS did not? The way I read it, that investor could face the same sanctions.

I suppose that if someone gets advice to cash in their pension that it might be worth asking the adviser if, assuming the adviser follows the rules correctly, their professional indemnity insurance would cover a retrospective tax charge by HMRC.
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Old Dec 5th 2011, 8:47 am
  #44  
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Im_and_Er View Post

One thing I don't understand is how people are getting away with banking the sort of sums we are talking about without raising red flags and being taxed on them. Relistically we are talking here of sums in excess of £100k as below that it's debatable whether a QROPS is an appropriate vehicle and certainly if you deposited that sort of sum in a UK bank you could expect a letter from HMRC requesting information as to it's source. Similarly in spain and France it would have to be declared as part of your world wide income and taxed accordingly.
How do you mean "people are getting away with banking the sort of sums"? You save money and you bank it
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Old Dec 6th 2011, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: QROPS

Originally Posted by Peter Crawley View Post
I sometimes wonder if HMRC script their rules in the Tower of Babel. There are so many different opinions from people, all of whom think they are right.

If HMRC are targetting QROPS, what are they targetting? Is it the adviser or the client? My feeling is that it is a case of Caveat Emptor as the client would be the target.
Hi,

I am an IFA, I work offshore and I am not touting for business ( with a name that I have used, I can hardly expect any).

I have been following this and other threads of a similar nature.

HMRC are starting to act on the QROPS market. Pension busting is clearly in their line of fire, but they are over reacting somewhat.

This is hot off the press ( Apologies to the moderators. I would not put links on a site without asking first, but this is relevant to this discussion).

http://www.international-adviser.com...akeup-of-qrops

Anyway guys, nice to visit your site. I hope to be back if I find something that interests you....

Cheers,

Otto!
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