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Help Needed - International Romance

Help Needed - International Romance

Old Jan 25th 2012, 2:03 pm
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Default Help Needed - International Romance

Hi,

I was wondering if I could pick the brains of some of the people here. I hope this is the right place for this.

First I'll give you the background. I'm a British born London based IT professional with about 8 years experience. About 10 months ago I met a Ukrainian girl whilst she was on holiday in London. We kept in touch and a full fledged relationship has blossomed. We talk every day and see each other about every 6 weeks however we are keen to live the same country as distance relationships are a killer.

Option 1:

She moves to London. This we are currently trying. She has a masters degree from a French University and speaks 4 languages including English, French and Russian. She has worked in HR for a well known French International Cosmetics company for the last 4 years in Kiev. She has been offered work in London but it was receptionist work at minim wage, this would be a massive step backwards for her so it was far from ideal. The problem is being from the Ukraine getting a Visa to work here may prove impossible.

Option 2:

We both move to a different country. This is something I'm actively exploring and the main point of me posting here. I'm fortunate enough to have little commitments here and have working skills that are valuable to other countries. The idea of living abroad for a few years is very appealing but I have no idea where would be good to go. Ideally it would have a decent standard of living, not have a massive impact on my salary and welcome both of us. I know this is a big ask and realistically sacrifices will need to be made.

Option 3:

I move to Kiev. This is something I could do. The level of corruption there is a big tern off as is the big drop in salary. It might be possible I could keep my current job and work from home. However I've worked from home before and it's terribly isolating, I can't begin to imagine how much more isolating it would be in a foreign country. I haven't ruled this out but we want to explore option 1 and 2 first.

So basically I'm asking if anyone can suggest possible countries/cites around the world that might be good for us to relocate for a few years? Someone has suggested Singapore to me which I'm looking into but I'm sure there are plenty of other suitable places. Also other good places online to ask this question would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Magpie
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Old Jan 26th 2012, 2:14 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

You've probably thought of this, so sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but could she get a transfer with her work to another branch in another country? Then you would have a list of possibilities and she shouldn't miss out pay-wise..?
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Old Jan 26th 2012, 9:31 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Thanks for the reply but yes we've tried this. The company she works for has said they'd happily employ her in another country as long as she sorts out the visa herself. As it seems most countries require her to be sponsored by a company before she'll get the visa I think it was a polite way of saying no.
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Old Jan 31st 2012, 6:20 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Originally Posted by Magpie79 View Post
Hi,

I was wondering if I could pick the brains of some of the people here. I hope this is the right place for this.

First I'll give you the background. I'm a British born London based IT professional with about 8 years experience. About 10 months ago I met a Ukrainian girl whilst she was on holiday in London. We kept in touch and a full fledged relationship has blossomed. We talk every day and see each other about every 6 weeks however we are keen to live the same country as distance relationships are a killer.

Option 1:

She moves to London. This we are currently trying. She has a masters degree from a French University and speaks 4 languages including English, French and Russian. She has worked in HR for a well known French International Cosmetics company for the last 4 years in Kiev. She has been offered work in London but it was receptionist work at minim wage, this would be a massive step backwards for her so it was far from ideal. The problem is being from the Ukraine getting a Visa to work here may prove impossible.

Option 2:

We both move to a different country. This is something I'm actively exploring and the main point of me posting here. I'm fortunate enough to have little commitments here and have working skills that are valuable to other countries. The idea of living abroad for a few years is very appealing but I have no idea where would be good to go. Ideally it would have a decent standard of living, not have a massive impact on my salary and welcome both of us. I know this is a big ask and realistically sacrifices will need to be made.

Option 3:

I move to Kiev. This is something I could do. The level of corruption there is a big tern off as is the big drop in salary. It might be possible I could keep my current job and work from home. However I've worked from home before and it's terribly isolating, I can't begin to imagine how much more isolating it would be in a foreign country. I haven't ruled this out but we want to explore option 1 and 2 first.

So basically I'm asking if anyone can suggest possible countries/cites around the world that might be good for us to relocate for a few years? Someone has suggested Singapore to me which I'm looking into but I'm sure there are plenty of other suitable places. Also other good places online to ask this question would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Magpie
If you would wish to remain in London and for the interim can afford to live on your salary, then surely accepting a minimum wage position would enable her to keep her self-respect and be earning whilst looking for a position more suitable for her skills and experience. Many people moving to the UK do that quite successfully.

hope it works out for you
rgds
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Old Jan 31st 2012, 9:06 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
If you would wish to remain in London and for the interim can afford to live on your salary, then surely accepting a minimum wage position would enable her to keep her self-respect and be earning whilst looking for a position more suitable for her skills and experience. Many people moving to the UK do that quite successfully.

hope it works out for you
rgds
Cheers, we're considering this but I don't want to sell her short before we know what our options are. It may come to that though and as you said it's not so bad.
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Old Feb 1st 2012, 9:54 am
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Long shot, but if she is multi-lingual and speaks Russian she might try some of the international law firms in London as an assistant. I have a friend who is doing well at a law firm in London, her only skill is Russian.

I am guessing the firm she works at is called Sephora? They seem to have branches all over the place, it is a pity they won't help out( if it is them).
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Old Feb 2nd 2012, 10:51 am
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Originally Posted by Magpie79 View Post
Cheers, we're considering this but I don't want to sell her short before we know what our options are. It may come to that though and as you said it's not so bad.
I have just moved to Spain after the BH took a job out there 2.5yrs ago. We had been existing on a week together every couple of months, now in our 60's it was hard enough but for the young then it can be a crippler for the relationship.

Get together one place or another, it is difficult to cut ties, but better that and finding you have made a mistake and retrenching than to look back in 20yrs time and think "Wonder what would have happened......."

good luck
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Old Feb 2nd 2012, 10:29 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Taking a romance to the next level takes sacrifice- you both need to keep options open until your truly ready for commitment though. One or both of you may lose some independence in a way that is much less serious when you start of in the same country. This, can cause insecurity and resentment.
many assume the one with the best job should stay put, but life is not just work. I left the uk to be closer to my boyfriend, I had by far the better job - but this also ment that I was able to negotiate a career brake so I could return easily. This made me temporarily dependent on my fella but the key word is temporary! New relationships do not need pressure, you don't want to think your together because there is no choice. This also gave my boyfriend a huge incentive to up his employability so he could get a decent job should I wish to return with him. We didn't have much at first, but no pressure, we were just taking a year or so to get to know each other.
Worked for us - happily married for ten years
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Old Feb 3rd 2012, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

I would the: Living in Ukraine and earning UK wages working from home would allow you's to live a very good life?! (cost of living being so cheap there) I wish I could have done that when I moved to Portugal(also because of a girl)... took me 6 months to get work(around 75% less than I earned in UK). It was tough in the begining... now here 8 years and self employed & 2 kids to her... best "chance" I ever took!!

Staying in the UK, a mate of mine fell for a Ukrainian girl also and I think the only option they had for her to stay was to make that big scary move...and get hitched! Several years on they are still together although have moved to Qatar.
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Old Apr 9th 2012, 10:56 am
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

I can't help laughing reading these post, and the suggestions, as well. It seems that you and people on here REALLY BELIEVE THAT A
UKRAINIAN CAN MOVE ABROAD JUST LIKE THIS! What a joke! To premise from what you must start is this: Western European countries, and wealthy Western countries in particular, are huge Ukrainian racists.
It would be easier for your girlfriend to move to the moon, then to one of these countries on any kind of work visa. They will not let
her do so JUST BECAUSE SHE IS UKRAINIAN. She will be REFUSED A WORK VISA EVERYWHERE, but would be given no answer as to why, or given an illusive answer like "you didn't prove your intention to return" or "the immigration officer decided that you were untrustworthy".
Keeping this in mind, let's go through all of your options.
Option 1: She moves to London.
As you already understood yourself, she will never get a work visa. If some local company wants to hire her, it must prove that there was
not another worker, so skilled, to fill her place in the UK. And, really, is she the only person who can work as a receptionist in the
whole UK? Is she the only person with a degree from a French university, or the only person in the whole UK who speaks four
languages? The answer is NO. So, NO company will hire her, because she is not the only skilled worker to fill any position. Plus, after
hiring her, the company would have to pay 100 000 to the government, to compensate for the loss of a job, which could have been filled by
a local. 100 000 for a receptionist? No way.
The ONLY way for her to get a job in the UK, is this: you MARRY her, she gets a permanent residency for 2 years, and with that paper in
hand goes around, looking for jobs. Even then, her French diploma is not eligible, and she will be looking for manual jobs, or jobs like a
receptionist.

Option 2:
We both move to a different country.

There is something in this way, it can be done, but the countries, suggested to you, are as impossible to your girlfriend, as UK itself.
They have the same rules, and she will go through the same motions and will get the same refusal to get a work visa: Canada, US, all Western
European countries, Japan, South Africa, forget it. But, a lot of poor African countries are opened to Ukrainians, entry visa free and they
can go there for work! Countries like Botswana, Kenya and Eretreia. Granted, their median salaries are about 20-30 pounds per month, but
what of it, right? More so, Ukraine have signed agreement with these countries, and Ukrainian degree is recognisable, so she may get a job
of a qualified professional with 50 pounds a month salary attached.


Option 3:

"I move to Kiev. This is something I could do."
Really, and how CAN you do it? Do you think that while Britain does everything to NOT issue even a visitor's visa to a Ukrainian, a
British person will be welcomed at the airport with flowers and a permanent residency card, with a pink ribbon, wrapped around it? To
MOVE to Ukraine you will need a Ukrainian permanent residency, as well as your girlfriend needs a UK permanent residency to work in UK. And
you CAN do it? And what are your ways of getting such a residency? Only ONE, and that is - for your girlfriend to MARRY you, then you
will have it as her spouse! Other than that, why would Ukraine give YOU a permanent residency, just because you arrived at the airport?
Because you are quite SOMETHING? No way. Of course, you can VISIT Ukraine without a visa for 90 days. But, you can not work on a visitors' visa. And even if you try to find a job, when you come to the interview, can you speak Ukrainian? Do you have a diploma from a Ukrainian university? Do you have INN (tax payer number)? And, when you show your ID, without a work visa stamp, how can you prove that you are in the country LEGALLY?
Of course, maybe you meant that you COULD go there for 90 days. But then what? I knew people who went for 90 days, left the country, and
returned back for another 90 days. Eventually, they were caught for SHUTTLING, and were blacklisted from entering the country, because it
was obvious, that they were not visitors.
There is way to move to Ukraine for a foreigner, and this is - to sent to work there by a Western company, which they are working for. I
understand that you are not working for a company, which have branches abroad. More so, such positions are very coveted. The company pays for
the move, pays for your accommodation, and the salary is higher than at home, because you are considered to be on a business trip. In some
cases, they give you a car, and pay for private schools for children. It's unlikely that you will find such a company in a hurry, and the
minute you get the job with them, they will send you abroad, with increased salary and benefits. You will have to prove yourself,
working for them several years in your own country.
So, to recup it all shortly, you do have three ways to manage it:
1. You marry her, she moves to the UK.
2. She marries you, you move to Ukraine.
3. You move to the poor part of African continent.

Last edited by ajoin; Apr 9th 2012 at 10:59 am.
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Old Apr 10th 2012, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

so whilst bemoaning the fact that there is (currently) no arrangements between the UK and Ukraine you also say there is no difference in reverse.

so why all the racist diatribe in the middle ??

UK is probably (has been) one of the most lenient countries in the world for newcomers. Many have been successful, some have been a disaster for all concerned.

That is how it is now, and some people are stuck with it. It doesn't mean that things will not change in the future for the benefit of all.
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Old Apr 11th 2012, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
so whilst bemoaning the fact that there is (currently) no arrangements between the UK and Ukraine you also say there is no difference in reverse.
Is that some kind of a JOKE? About "no difference in reverse"? A British citizen can come to Ukraine with NO VISA FOR 90 DAYS. A Ukrainian citizen can get a visa to the UK IF HE/SHE IS A MILLIONAIRE (in British pounds). If they earn a medium local salary of 150-200 pounds a
month, they have their passport blacklisted by the UK embassy. And you call it NO DIFFERENCE IN THE REVERSE?
You call British citizens coming here with NO VISA and Ukrainian citizens being FORCED to disclose their PERSONAL AND FINANCIAL
INFORMATION (like their bank accounts number and the amount of money they have on them, and when they were opened, and their tax payers
numbers), to receive a black stamp in the passport and a refusal of the visa - NOTHING IN REVERSE?
If there was NOTHING IN REVERSE, why fat British are not FORCED TO DISCLOSE THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS NUMBERS WHEN COMING TO UKRAINE?
Because they are BETTER THAN UKRAINIANS, NO DOUBT.


Originally Posted by Domino View Post
UK is probably (has been) one of the most lenient countries in the world for newcomers. Many have been successful, some have been a disaster for all concerned.
For what newcomers? For Indians, because India was once a colony of UK, and UK feels like compensating, for black people because of their skin colour and Arabs because of their religion (one can't show that they are against Muslims). As Ukrainians are NOT Indians, black or Muslims, and are rather mild-behaving people, who won't go on the streets to protest their rights, they are treated with disdain as third rate citizens of the planet. The NORMAL questions in the embassy, besides SHOWING YOUR FULL BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU HAVE ON IT, THE ACCOUNT ACTIVITY FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS, AND A PAPER FROM THE BANK, INCLUDE: "Where did you get this money from? How many times a week do you sleep with your husband? You said you had a child, is it your husband's or did you get it out of wedlock". Nothing will EVER change, until some spirited national organization raise Ukrainians in Kyiv and UK to protest against such a treatment, and threaten to kick all the Brits and their organization out of Ukraine, until the racist behaviour and treatment stops.
Why, in the UK embassy they are so brass, they even PUT THEIR OWN
STAMPS AND NOTES INTO UKRAINIAN PASSPORTS, I'd like to see some
Ukrainian official writing something in a UK passport.

Last edited by ajoin; Apr 11th 2012 at 7:31 pm.
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Old Apr 12th 2012, 4:12 am
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

If you hate the UK and British people so much, then why do you care? Stay in the Ukraine and avoid us nasty racist colonists. Problem solved.
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Old Apr 12th 2012, 7:24 am
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

Originally Posted by Azarel View Post
If you hate the UK and British people so much, then why do you care? Stay in the Ukraine and avoid us nasty racist colonists. Problem solved.

First of all, why must I go and stay in Ukraine?
Second, who said that I was coming to UK?
Third, you are everywhere. Go walk along my street in the summer, it
teems with British. And, even the OP is trying to leave Britain and
come to Ukraine illegally, so there is no avoiding him.
Fourth, it's racists who hate other people, and not the other way
round. So, why don't you, British, stay home and avoid Ukrainians, if
you hate them so very much?
Nothing is solved.
And, of course, the post itself is racist, implying that it's not the
racists who must change their ways, but their victims who must avoid
racists, so as not to provoke them into racism! It's all the victims'
fault.

Last edited by ajoin; Apr 12th 2012 at 7:59 am.
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Old Apr 12th 2012, 7:58 am
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Default Re: Help Needed - International Romance

I repeat - why all this racist diatribe against the British in a British Expats forum ??

Is it because a lowly Brit has actually managed to pull himself out of the gutter and formed a relationship with a Proud Ukrainian Woman?
Will such a relationship resulting in marriage and children dilute the Proud Ukrainian Bloodline?

You are spoiling another persons opportunity to overcome the legal, financial and personal problems - when he wants to make a relationship work, irrespective of the country his lady comes from.

fine you are proud of your heritage, but you will find the same problems in just about every country of the world - don't blame the British, try Stalin, Lenin and few others who have kept you hidden under the blanket.

as to the British, well they are like ants, nasty little things that get everywhere - even Ukraine.
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