Disillusioned
 

Hi,

Just been reading on another forum how they are closing the peer route down for a WA licence and suspect other states may be following suit.

I am getting peeved now and thinking of binning the whole idea, I have a well paid job and reasonable financial security at present. I am wondering if they really want sparks over there as they seem to be making it as awkward and arduous as possible to get get your licence once you've managed to get across, IMO it should be abundantly clear if they expect you to work as an unskilled apprentice for 12 months on crap money before getting a licence once you have passed through the Immigration process. The visa and moving costs will seem cheap compared to the loss of earnings for this 12 month period and thats if you can even get somebody to take you on to be supervised constantly. My response to the post on the other forum is below.



Question is, is there a hole that needs plugging?

Firstly
There is an assessment for migration purposes where you either have to fullfill arduous requirements for the special class assessment or pass a practical assessment for the general electrician assessment. For the record both are graded to ensure you can carry out the work of a Australian tradesman, special class being that you can carry out general electrician duties as well as special class duties.


Secondly
The ARTC assessment where you have to submit everything other that a pound of flesh and a litre of blood to justify why you should be given this recognition (which is effectively what you have already been told you have but only for migration purposes?)


Thirdly
The ARTC is used a prequal for the wiring rules course which takes 2 days and has an exam that takes the best part of a day to complete, this is to ensure you are up to speed with the Aussie regs and assumes that the 2 previous stages of assessment have confirmed your abilities to physically do the work.


Personally I am considering binning the whole thing as if the peer route is closed, I am going to struggle to be able to set myself up from scratch and gaurantee my families livelihood while working as an apprentoid for 12 months - this is even if I can get someone to take me on! I think that enough is enough and I am getting seriously dissillusioned with the whole process now, perhaps the solution is to switch my SS to South Australia where a more reasonable approach seems to be the order of the day.

Re: Disillusioned
 

Having gone the PEER route to a WA licence myself, I cant see how they can do this. You do PEER you get a SA licence which they have to give mutual recognition to. I thought the whole point of mutual recognition was because a national scheme was on its way in.

I feel for you mate, I'd never go thru that bullshit again but it's all worth it when its all over:thumbsup:

Re: Disillusioned
 

Have to agree with everything you said, I'm going through the same process myself, I'm waiting for a visa so I can do my ARTC but like you say its all brain damage material...Didn't know new cross was in Kent...

Re: Disillusioned
 

Same here, no rush at the mo, but dont get all th bullsh1t about needing trades, then ******* people about. I will go through the motions, no probs, but best be worth it. Like you say, why give up a well paid job if all you get is aload of ****** bollax when in oz.
Am off for a reckie in september for 5 weeks, if its pants then al bin it, no probs. Company I work for pay well look after me, dont mind 5 week paid holidays, so might be a stay here an holiday in oz;) Will see:blink:

Re: Disillusioned
 

Rapid edit mod

Re: Disillusioned
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shar07
I am a bit scared of saying this in case I get my head bitten off by you big strong Electricians lol but here goes. We have just got back from Perth (OH is an Electrician and passed Vetassess). I have been in touch with Energy Safety and they have told me that OH can apply through them for the licence, OH has to fill in application form send it to them and when he arrives in Perth book himself on the 2 week course and when he passes this he will get his licence, no mention of ARTC. So what do you think about that then - I also have spoken to 2 people who have been down this route and they have not done the ARTC and they have their licences. So we are going to go this route and see what happens - if I am wrong then so be it. Thanks for everyones help on the forum it has been helpful.

MY REPLY

Funny you have posted this as i have been doing some phoning around and have been told that the vetassess was put in place for a reason and would soon be recognised in aus. If this is the recognition then good as the vetassess test is a well run test and check of our qualifications.

Sounds about time that something should be put in place to make the jump easier. A two weeks regs course on arivall would make our lives a lot easier.
My fingers are crossed for you and us. Let us know what happens.

Could this be the new way :confused:

Re: Disillusioned
 

I wish that was true. My assessor from the vetasses practical exam (Eric) told me at the end of the days test, that Vetasses was getting moth balled mid next year. He said that a new system would be put in place. He agreed that its all a money making Scam.:confused:

Re: Disillusioned
 

You read one post that gives you a glimmer of hope then the next post strikes you down....don't know what to believe....I think I will continue of just banging my head against the wall and hopefully the pain will stop...:confused:

Re: Disillusioned
 

It's not :), I am currently living split between the 2 places

Re: Disillusioned
 

Hi

Just received my SS from WA this week so should hopefully have my visa soon. I am in the same predicament as everyone wondering to do the expensive PEER/ARTC/SA License route or just land in WA and take it from there. The 2 weeks gap training sounds great so if anyone finds out if this a goer please keep me posted.

Thanks

Andy

Re: Disillusioned
 

have you verified this or is it just some ones say so on another forum ??

can you give us a link to the "info" and perhaps some one like arthur who regulalry speaks to peer can find out on our behalf

regards steve

Re: Disillusioned
 

A bit convoluted but there is a link via a thread called electircal fitter what next in the employment forum on pomsinoz.

Re: Disillusioned
 

yep just read through it and to be honest i can see their point where "fitters" are concerned, to get classed as a fitter is "usually” but not always an maintenance electrician who in most cases haven’t done much wiring but more repairing of equipment that’s electrical, so to have these people gain a full electrical licence via the back door isn’t really on, perhaps if the likes of peer only allowed students with an artc in electrical mechanics this wouldn’t have been looked at so closely ??

only time will tell but now its been aired i`m sure some states will start amending the rules which is a shame as the mutual recognition was put in place to hlp people move interstate to where the work was

Re: Disillusioned
 

Actually its an automatic filter which removes certain words as they are not wanted on BE.

Re: Disillusioned
 

Techno-tastic!

Re: Disillusioned
 

rinkerdink;

I think your all mixed up mate,
1st of all PEER is NOT closing its doors to anyone at all, you can go to PEER from ant state to do there wiring rules course.

Now then this is how it all works.
you NOW make your application from the Uk to migrate, then you are steered down the vatassess route, end of story i got this direct from the main man at PEER.

You then do a trade test in the UK at a given site, this is a mix bag of practical & theory, once passed you get the green light for migration, i would then recomend you apply for ARTC from the UK. makes life a little better when your here & i say a little.????
I would then be contacting PEER with ARTC in hand sign up for the PEER electrical distance course, you get all books sent to your home there is a work book with heaps of example when you are confident with that your ready for the exam, no added cost for exam when you get here its all in the costings of about $900.00 to PEER.

seems straight forward to now.??

when your here get to PEER in S/A do the wiring rules course, same day get to the Licensing division in S/A (Energy safe) and apply for the Restricted License, then you must fullfill requirments of 12 month log book + 160 hours GAP training before your allowed the Unrestricted Electrical License some states call it different but its all the same in the end.

The wiring rules course is to make sure all students are up to date & speed with current Australian wiring rules & work practices.

I think you shall find that things have changed in S/A again you must do the log book & GAP in S/A.

these changes have been brought in to coincide with Vatassess, they are the only agency now that people from 5 countries can apply for migration & the UK is one of them.

so recolect.

1st Vatassess application.
2nd ARTC from UK
3rd PEER distance course.
4th when here PEER for wiring rules exam 2 days.
5th restricted electrical license.
6th log book for 12 months with NO break in employment.
7th GAP Training 160 hours.
8th Apply to Energy safe for the Unrestricted Electrical License.
Then you think your home & Dry.??? think again.

Then if you want to be self employed thats another nightmare with lots more hoops to jump through.??? But we are all here to help, so its not all two bad.

Correct me if i hade any mistakes but im sure thats about it all, for the Unrestricted License.
Arthur

Re: Disillusioned
 

So they need trades in strayla like I need a hole in the head. Bunch of arse.

Re: Disillusioned
 

So what is the point of doing the bloody ARTC if you still have to do the gap training then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU SURE ARTHUR ?????????????

Re: Disillusioned
 

Coz it costs another grand, then your cpr, etc etc etc etc.:sneaky:

What about New Zealand? Any better or is the sparky a lower form of dung?

Canada could be a better option, what do you need to get in there?

Re: Disillusioned
 

Exactly my thoughts, i'd have wasted 4 grand but have an aus visa to fall back on, i'm wondering what the kiwi's require? I've got an old mate in Wellington who I'm sure would help me get started.

Other option is to kill my current trade and do something else once i'm out there, when i look at the money I'm earning and the respect I command over here I think 12 months completing a log book would be too much to take at 36 years of age and thats once the artc and peer bitis done oh and the gap course. BTW has anybody ever seen any job's for restricted licence sparkies? I wouldn't bother hiring one as you can gaurantee you won't see em for dust after 366 days

F@ck knows what they demand from high risk countres i pity the fools that battle to get out there only to face all this crap.

Re: Disillusioned
 

As a guide just checked the www.seek.com.au site using restricted and electrician as key words... One job in Queensland!!! and that is a temp to perm in a food factory doing 24/7 shifts!

I know there are other ways of finding work but this is far from encouragng, I think I will bag the visa and check NZ out in the mean time, I wish I'd known it was this much of a palaver, I thought getting the visa was the awkward bit and having almost done that now it's far from easy! I remember Australia being a bit overgoverned with even painters and decorators displaying licence numbers (wtf) but this seems like a joke too far.

Is there any other trade with this much red tape and this many hoops to jump through?

Re: Disillusioned
 

jonsparx;

let me phone the man today to confirm

art

Re: Disillusioned
 

jonsparx;
this is a new this Vatassess system has buggered it all for people, i dont think they know how badly its affecting people applying to migrate.

i have just phoned PEER the bloke is not in today but i shall call tomorrow, its a real pig of a job now.

the old system allowed a person to apply from the UK get there ARTC then get here & do the electrical course with NO pissing log book or GAP training but for some reason the cabbages at Vatassess have stuffed all that, frigging typical.

art

Re: Disillusioned
 

jonsparx;

i got this from the TRA people


Quote
From the Trade Recognition Australia (TRA)

If you are a qualified electrical tradesperson from a country other than those recognised by VETASSESS, you can obtain an Australian Recognised Trade Certificate (ARTCs) from Trade Recognition Australia to assist in your application for a restricted electrical workers registration. TRA will assess your current qualifications/experience and technical skills and list the units of competency that you have completed on the ARTC.
Once you have been issued with an Australian Recognised Trade Certificate, you may then make an application for a workers registration with our office.
If you are recognised as an Electrician, Electrical Fitter or Electrical Mechanic, you may apply for a restricted registration with the condition: any electrical work under the supervision of a registered electrical worker.
To have this limitation removed or to apply for an unrestricted registration, you will also be required to provide evidence of completion of the approved AS/NZS 3000:2007 Wiring Rules course and exam.
To obtain your unrestricted Electrical licence you will need an appropriate Certificate recognising your skills eg ARTC,ART,VETASSESS or similar you will also need to complete what’s known as the gap training of approximately 160 hours

Over a period of 12 months with No Breaks in employment
To complete the process you will need to be employed, carry a work place log and have a restricted electrical licence (fees for the licence are in the area of $300.00 dollars)
For further information on the AS/NZS 3000:2007 Wiring Rules course and exam you may wish to contact either of the following organisations:
Regency Institute of TAFE (08) 8348 4426
PEER Tec (08) 8348 1200

Re: Disillusioned
 

I thought once you had your ARTC then you could just do your wiring rules course then apply for the license!!! No gap training. When did this all change??
Why would you even need an ARTC if you still have to do the same gap training as if you only had the Vetassess cert?????????? Sounds like bullsh1t to me.

Sounds like TRA are just trying to drum up some work thats not actually required.

Re: Disillusioned
 

nothings changed jonsparx you have always needed to do the permit to train, log book and au wiring course in qld and most other states regardless of how you "got" into the country whether that be skilled via vetts, tra or spouse visa,

we have found that by gaining an artc you can "short circuit" ( forgive the pun ) the system and get licenced in approx 3 weeks via peer
at the end of the day its the rules that they apply in order to gain a license and thees rules apply to every one ( including aussies )

regards steve

Re: Disillusioned
 

I guess another way of looking at all of this is that if it was easy to get out there and work then part of the reason that we are all trying so hard to get out there would be gone. I wish the UK system was more stringent. No one said it was easy but im sure in the long run it will all be worth it.

Re: Disillusioned
 

3 weeks at PEER I can handle no problem, its the 12 month prov license / logbook I was shocked ( forgive the pun! ) about :lol:

Re: Disillusioned
 

Hiho hiho its of to peer we go.:eek:

Re: Disillusioned
 

steve`o
well said mate, you said it all in a few lines it has taken me War & Peace to explain to people they must now do the log book & GAP

thanks steve

art

ps

caught many fish mate in that super boat.??

Re: Disillusioned
 

minty01;

do you intend to work for your self when here & obtain the full electrical license, if so i have more info for you, but its not good news.???? well that all depends on how you look at it all.

Re: Disillusioned
 

Hi Mate, to start with i will be more then happy working for someone else but in the long run i want to go it alone. Understand i need to go back to school to learn how to be my own buisness though.

Re: Disillusioned
 

minty01;
your correct there mate when you say you would have to go back to college to do the electrical contractors course its evening course, most do it in about 15 weeks 1 x night per week.

but you can do it via PEER distance course all done at home just send in your projects to them.

when you get your full electrical license thats great. then if you want to work for yourself, you must do the electrical contractors course, you wont get insurance until you have the contractors license (all tied up here) (Money).

1st full license
2nd contractors license.
3rd insurance its normal now to get $10,000,000 (10 million) cover costing about $600.00 or so.

Oh if you dont get the contractors license your NOT allowed to quote for jobs in a legal capacity also your not allowed to advertise for work without the contractors license.????? more money again.

Re: Disillusioned
 

nope no boat yet mate the first two that we had agreed costs on have both failed at survey :frown: $2k to date and havent been afloat yet:rofl:

Re: Disillusioned
 

steve`o

bloody hell Steve, thats a lot of dosh mate, but better than panic buying and throwing dosh down drain.

Oh well Steve i had better get back down pit digging for coal to keep them 2 indoors warm.??

Re: Disillusioned
 

Steve O and Arthur,

Can you give some sort of guide as to the salary drop you will have to take while on a restricted licence and also give an indication about how hard or easy it is to secure a position with this kind of licence?

I've cooled a bit but I am still not thrilled, I need to do some sums and work out if I can actually afford to give my family a better life within five years of arrival, I'd been working on a salary of around AUD$60-65k. The sooner I know whether I'm to bin the whole thing the better... either way. If I'm going to be struggling for too long like I used to be over here I think i'll quickly lose my appetitie for it and return any way:(:(:(

I've done a quick search on Seek and it is far from encouraging, hopefully you'll have some positive news:fingerscrossed:

Cheers and thanks for input!

Re: Disillusioned
 

rinkerdink;
Hell mate thats a hard question to be asking me & Steve, now with the restricted license your going to be on less money, thats if you can get a company to take you on these days with the limited license.
as to what pay i dont know & i woul also not expect Steve to making comments on such a delicate issue, thsts just not fair on steve.

with regards to security of work i suppose if the company like you & your good at your job then they "May" well take you on, maybe.???

I can fully understand your pure frustration at all this, its not good for all concerend. i know this most sparks in the vic area working onsite can expect to be earning about $70,000 with site rates & all the rest that comes with it all. if you cannot get sorted in the 5 years after ariving your doing something wrong mate.

the decisision to bin it all or stick with it is you & your family to make that decision, myself i would be sticking to it all, look to the future for your kids & your wife, there is lots of bloody hurdles but take them one at a time.
From getting here with the ARTC the time fraction for the full license can b, say 2 weeks thats the license posted to your home as Steve has said to many others on here, then the electrical contractors course a couple of months doing distance course via PEER, if you have gone down Vatassess then you have to accept the log book & GAP 12 months, so all up if your self employed you can do it all in about 14 months,
working for a mob inclusive of GAP & frigging log book 12 months + 2 days at PEER. also consider the OH&S for site work this can be done at PEER 1 x day course $60.00 without this you shall be lucky to get on any site across Australia, maybe ask Steve on this i think he does lots of site work.

Its always going to be a struggle mate when 1st here looking for work where your hands are tied a little.

SEEK i consider a waist of space, im sure steve once commented about this lot, they get you on there books cause they get money from the government, then as far as work for you is concerned byee byee.

But for goodness sake keep your chin up & think of the future for you all, once you get into a real routine you can look back with pride & what you have done for the family.

Re: Disillusioned
 

Thanks Arthur,

I have been getting a bit maudlin lately, the one hurdle at a time approach is probably the best

Re: Disillusioned
 

I have been watching this thread with great interest, the information is invaluable and am sure is very useful to alot of people outhere who are in the same boat as me. I must admit I think Disillusioned is most fitting. All this red tape makes you think, is this what I really want to put myself through.

For the sake of repeating yourself can I confirm, if I were to obtain an ARTC back in the U.K. and do the distance study via PEER I could obtain a full licence in 2 weeks or is that licence restricted.

Thanks again for the information Arthur keep up the good work.

Re: Disillusioned
 

dodge26;

The answer for the full license in 2 weeks is NO its as simple as that even with the ARTC, you have been through vatassess this now means you must do the lob book for 12 months + GAP training at any tafe (college) at best you shall only get a restricted license then after 12 months of log book & GAP then you can apply for the full license.

if you post Stev'O on here he has good info especially for QLD area.

sorry mate but all students not go through Vatassess & that means the logbook & GAP