Cairns1

Hi there,

My husband and I are seriously considering moving to the UK early next year. My mother is a British Citizen and living there, so I am able to get a British Passport through her. My husband's father is a British Citizen being born in Northern Rhodesia (a former British Colony). Would my husband be able to apply for a British Passport through desent, even though his father was not born in the UK. Both of my husband's grandparents we born in the UK.

Thank you so much for assisting me with my query!

JAJ

Perhaps. Northern Rhodesia was a British protectorate, by the way, but not a colony.

If your husband was born before 1983 then he might be a British citizen, since there were British grandparents in the picture. Were his parents and grandparents married?

Cairns1

Thanks for your help! My father-in-law was a British Citizen from birth and my husband was born here in South Africa. My husband's parents got married here in SA. I got hold of Breytenbach's Immigration here in SA and they said that he could apply, but there may be a problem as my father-in-law has not lived in the UK at anytime in his life. I'm thinking of just getting my British Citizenship and then taking the family on spousal/child visas with permanent leave to remain? It's quite expensive, but there will be no restrictions on working. That's my plan. Applying for citizenship takes 6-9 months so it will take a little longer than we planned, but worth it in the end!

JAJ

As long as your husband was born before 1983 (you still haven't told us), I think there is a good chance he can claim he is a British citizen (by descent). In this situation the fact his father in law never lived in the UK is irrelevant.

Tell us when he was born and then I can show you the relevant legislation.

As for you, when were you born? Again - before or after 1.1.1983?

Cairns1

Sorry, I was born in 1980 and my husband was born in 1977.

Cairns1

Oh and both of his parents and grandparents were married. If that's what your previous question meant. I really appreciate your help. Thanks

JAJ

Here's the legislation - British Nationality Act 1948.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...9480056_en.pdf

All that follows assumes that your husband's grandparents were married, as well as his parents.

You will almost certainly need to get hold of the relevant evidence (marriage certificates). If you cannot obtain grandparents marriage certificates then he might still have a chance but it will be a lot more complicated.

Your father in law was a Citizen of the UK & Colonies (CUKC) from 1949, by descent because he was born outside the Colonies themselves (in a protectorate), with a UK-born father.

Your husband, became a CUKC by descent when he was born, because his father was a CUKC born in a protectorate - see section 5 of the 1948 Act. And he was a CUKC with Right of Abode in the UK because he had a UK-born parent.

Hence on 1.1.1983, it seems that he became a British citizen by descent.

Apply for a British passport to prove it. If you have to send off irreplaceable documents make sure you have a secure method (courier) for both sending it and getting it back, also needless to say, keep certified copies. You'd be amazed how many people don't.

Did the lawyers give you different advice in writing? If so, what did they say?




As for you, you can register as a British citizen under UKM, if your mother was born in Britain:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...britishmother/


Do you want to keep your South African citizenship? If yes, you need permission from Home Affairs beforehand.


Have you got any children?

Cairns1

You are awesome!! Thank you so much for your input... I really appreciate it!
The agency I contacted in Britain simply said that my husband should apply for a British passport and the same agency in South Africa spoke to me telephonically and said that my FIL must have lived in the UK for three years in his life. They were very keen to help me but only if I paid them their fee which is quite a lot - especially if it doesn't work out. I have applied for my husband's vault copy birth certificate and my in-laws vault copy marriage certificate. I can similarly apply for his grandparents vault marriage certificate as I think they were married in SA. Do I also need my FIL's birth certificate and my husband's grandfather's unabridged birth certificate? I think my husband has a copy of the latter from his grandfather's deceased estate. His father's one I will have to apply for from the UK - if I need it.

I have 2 children - both born in South Africa, 2006 and 2009. Will they have to go on South African passports but with child visas?

Thanks again for your help - really can't say how much it means to me - I've been looking for answers everywhere and it's been hard to find someone who knows what they are talking about!

JAJ

Don't assume he is British until he has the passport - but I think there is a good chance based on the facts stated. Get copies of his paternal grandparents UK birth certificates, they are important for proving eligibility.

Out of interest - when was your husband's father born? If between 1958 and 1963 (unlikely if your husband was borin in 1977, though), there is the additional complication that Northern Rhodesia was part of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, rather than a protectorate. However, on 1.1.64, when the Federation was dissolved, Federation citizens who did not become Southern Rhodesia citizens became Citizens of the UK & Colonies. Most lost CUKC when Zambia and Malawi became independent later in 1964, but those with specified UK ties, or who did not become Zambia/Malawi citizens, remained CUKC.


Yes. Unless there's something else in terms of UK ties you've not told us about, such as if you or their father lived in the UK for a period of time.

Once you both have your British passports, http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk to get them Child visas.

After 3 years in the UK, they can be registered as British citizens otherwise than by descent, if they are still under 18.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...livingintheuk/

They could probably get British citizenship sooner than 3 years, but in the circumstances described it would be British citizenship "by descent".

Let us know how your husband gets on with his passport application. Don't be surprised if you have to apply more than once as passport offices don't always know the law. Might be worth printing the relevant section of the British Nationality Act 1948.

Cairns1

Thanks! My husband's father was born in 1952. He retained his British Citizenship throughout.

I have not spent a considerable length of time in the UK. Out of interest, I spent 4 years on Saint Helena Island when I was a child (a British Colony) but I don't think that counts!

I will definitely get those birth certificates.
Just waiting to get all of the documentation together before we apply, but I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all your help!

JAJ

So your mother was born in the United Kingdom, and you lived on St Helena when you were a child?

St Helena became a "qualifying territory" on 21 May 2002 following which you can use St Helena residence for some (not all) British nationality purposes.

If in fact your mother was born in St Helena, then you'd need to be able to show a UK-born grandparent or your own residence in the UK for 5 years prior to 1983 in order to be eligible for UKM.

Or is there any chance you were registered as a British national during your time in St Helena?

Cairns1

No, my mother was in fact born in England. My parents ran a church on St Helena for 4 years when I was 3 until I was 7. We returned to South Africa just before I turned 8 - in 1988. I was never declared a British National - I had a SA passport throughout. Interesting though!

JAJ

Interesting. You appear to be eligible for UKM.

Once you have UKM, it seems that you have an alternative to the normal option getting your kids child visas and getting them British citizenship 3 years after moving to the UK.

They can probably be registered as British citizens straight away because you lived in St Helena.

Look at Chapter 9 of the Nationality Instructions, Section 9.7.5:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...ns/nichapter9/


Minors born to a parent who has been registered under section 4C BNA 1981

9.7.5 Section 4C of the 1981 Act allows those born before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen. Once registered, their children born outside of the United Kingdom will have an entitlement to be registered as a British citizen under section 3(2) of the Act, if certain requirements are met. In view of this, Ministers have agreed to exercise discretion to register children who were born before the parent registered as a British citizen under section 4C.

9.7.6 We may normally register if:
a. the child was born before the parent registered under section 4C;
b. if the child had been born after the parent’s registration, he or she would have had an entitlement under section 3(2) (see Chapter 10 );
c. where necessary, both parents consent to the registration or any objections by the non-applicant parent are ill-founded (see 9.19 below); and
d. there is no reason to refuse on character grounds (see 9.17.30-9.17.33 below and Annex B).


The section 3(2) requirements are referred to here:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...s/nichapter10/

St Helena is a "qualifying territory" so it seems you would have a good chance to get your children British citizenship.

Advantage - children can be British before they get to the United Kingdom and whole family (since your husband appears also to be British) can have British passports.

Disadvantage - children will be British citizens "by descent" in this situation, compared to becoming British "otherwise than by descent" if you wait until 3 years after arrival in the UK.

In the situation

Cairns1

Thanks, that sounds like a good plan! I would never have guessed that ... the law seems so intertwined and confusing to me! I do see though that there is a way for my children to get British Citizenship - if I can prove my stay in St Helena. I will definitely try that route. Thanks!

Jessedi

Hi there,
I hope I'm not asking something already covered before but my situation is quite similar to Cairns1's husbands and I was hoping to apply for a British passport under the new UKM that came in last year.

My situation is this:
My maternal grandparents were born in the UK and emigrated to South Africa while it was still a dominion in 1948.
My mother was born in 1952 in SA and registered at the British High Commission.
I was born in 1982 and my mother tried to register me at the British High Commision within a year of my birth but was refused by the staff.
At the time of my birth my mother was a CUKC with ROA.
I have her old passport showing this, as well as my grandparent's original birth certificates and a copy (but no original) of their marriage certificate.

So I am unclear whether I meet the requirements for UKM, in particular the second requirement. I haven't had much luck finding out what the legal status of a "dominion" was. Also I'm not sure if my mother's registration at birth is valid as the registration required to fulfil requirement 2.

Any advice would be welcome.