melloj

My family is likely moving to London UK in January.

My wife has Japanese and Canadian citizenship and British citizenship by way of descent from her father (i.e. her British citizenship does not automatically pass down to her children born outside of the UK.).

I have Canadian and Polish (EU) citizenship.

We have one child, born in Canada with Canadian and Japanese passports (though not yet his Polish, as it takes a long time to complete all the proper steps). Our second child is on the way and will likely be born in Japan this December and would only have his/her Japanese passport at that time (though will be entitled to Canadian and Polish passports).

Based on the fact my wife will hold her British passport and I my Polish passport, we can both move to London and work etc. from January. As neither of our children will at that time have either a British or EU passport, will we have any trouble bringing them into (and for that matter keeping them in) England? Are there any steps we should take? Do we need to apply for an EEA family permit for them (although the children would be travelling with my wife, rather than with me, which appears to make a difference as to whether an EEA permit can be obtained since she holds a UK passport)?

Any help through this tangled mess would be MUCH appreciated.

BritInParis

As your children are Polish citizens by descent automatically at birth, you cannot apply for an EEA Family Permit for them as they are already EEA citizens. Having said that, without a Polish passport, you'll have a hard time proving their Polish citizenship at the UK border.

The preferable course of action would be obtain Polish passports for both your children before departing for the UK. You say it takes a long time to complete the proper steps - I can't say I'm familiar with the process - so let's presume you need to leave Japan before your children have their Polish passports. In that situation the best case scenario is that they would be stamped in as visitors at the UK border and you can make the application for their Polish passports in London. Without an EEA passport however there's no guarantee that you would be allowed into the UK as your intent isn't to visit but to settle. If it were me, I would definitely try and get those Polish passports before departing.

melloj

Thank you as always for the thoughtful response.

Unfortunately, getting the Polish passports before going to the UK just isn't feasible and that's mainly to do with our jetsetting ways. We have to get our Japanese marriage registered in Poland first and the only way to do that is to present ourselves at the Polish embassy in Tokyo (not till December will I be there). After that's been done, I have to register my son's Canadian birth certificate in Poland. Only then can I apply for his PESEL (i.e. social insurance number) and his passport. Same problem with the other child.

I can see whether the Polish authorities would give me something certifying my son as a Polish citizen, but until the marriage is registered, I don't think that's possible.

It's less than ideal, but I think we will have to go down the route of entering the UK with the two kids on non-EU passports, hoping that the immigration officer won't turn away the kids of a British citizen. Perhaps a letter from me (as I will already be in the UK at that time) that my children are both Polish citizens, but we are in the process of getting their passports would be worth something.

Thanks again.

Mummy in the foothills

It might be faster to stop off in Poland for a holiday on the way to London. I'm just kidding as you'd still have to have all the proof in hand for them.

quoll

Cant you get them a child visa? http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/vis...tled/children/ in the first instance?

formula

If you aren't working, don't forget that you won't be exercising your EU free movement rights and therefore you and your children won't be allowed free NHS. Your wife will be allowed free NHS as she is a British citizen and has returned to live in the UK (unless they bring in the new NHS rules they are talking about).

Most Polish enter the UK with a Polish EHIC to cover healthcare if they aren't working, which means their heathcare is paid for by the Polish government. As you have never worked in Poland, I doubt that Poland would issue you and the children a Polish EHIC?

Wouldn't you have to apply for an EU permit for your dependant children before they enter the UK, if they don't have proof of their Polish citizenship and are entering on Canadian passports???? If they are stamped in as visitors, again, visitors can't have free NHS or schooling. Unless you can change their status to an EU permit from inside the UK???? I know UK immigration rules don't allow visitors to change their status from inside the UK, but it might be different with the EU rules?

You might do better asking on the EU board on www.immigrationboards.com as they will know what you have to do to get your Canadian children into the UK using the EU route.

melloj

Formula - I will be transferring to my firm's London office; they will take care of all of the insurance matters.

However, it's likely the kids will need some form of permission to be in the UK beyond just a visitor stamp, even so as to get covered by whatever insurance the firm will set us up under.

Thanks for the heads up on the other forum - I will proceed over there as well.

formula

mello j, I hope you don't mind me putting the link to your thread on that other board as it might help others. Although anyone reading this thread months later, might need to check the advice given as EU rights are always changing and are implemented immediately.
http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=143113

melloj

Don't mind at all formula - it was quite an interesting and fruitful discussion.

pennylessinindia

If they will be Polish automatically and you can show it should be OK but if not then just apply for settlement visa for them

not2old

doesn't it apply the UK right of abode through their British grandfather & since the children are commonwealth citizens

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si.../guide_roa.pdf

and of course this

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/vi...tled/children/

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...en/bornabroad/

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...lity/children/

not2old

I also found this on BE forums

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Britis...hip_by_Descent

BritInParis

Couple of thoughts on this:

- The Polish embassy websites I've been looking at (through the use of Google Translate admittedly) seem to suggest that a temporary passport is available for children for which the requirements aren't nearly so stringent. This might be worth investigating.

http://www.tokio.msz.gov.pl/pl/infor...e_paszportowe/

- Your wife is British by descent - has she spent the requisite three consecutive years in the UK to allow your children to be registered as British citizens? You would still need to make an application to Liverpool for the certificates and then for the passports but it might be quicker than going down the full Polish passport procedure if the temporary option isn't open to you for whatever reason.

JAJ

They need either child settlement visas in their Canadian passports, or Polish passports. Even if you get them child visas, it would normally be recommended to get them Polish passports as well.

By the way - after three years living in the U.K. they can be registered as British citizens under section 3(5) of the British Nationality Act. This applies regardless of whether or not they have settlement visas. It might be possible to get British citizenship under section 3(1) of the Act before 3 years, but this would only give them British citizenship by descent.

Has your wife ever lived in Britain or a British territory before? If so, they may be already eligible for British citizenship (by descent) under section 3(2) of the Act.

If you want them to keep Japanese citizenship long term, you should get legal advice in Japan as the laws there are different from many other countries. As far as I am aware, in general, Japan discourages dual citizenship after age 20-22 but it's not clear if there is an automatic cancellation of Japanese citizenship if a foreign citizenship is acquired/retained.

If you work things out correctly, your children will have three citizenships (Canadian, Polish and British) and possibly a fourth (Japanese).

BritInParis

Footnote regarding Japanese citizenship:

A minor may hold multiple citizenships until he or she reaches the age of majority (20 in Japan) at which point you need to make a choice. You have a further two years to decide this.

http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tcon-01.html

I can't imagine there will be much of a desire to lose your British, Canadian and Polish citizenship simply to maintain your Japanese citizenship, however like many countries that forbid dual nationality, if you always remember to keep your Japanese passport up to date and only use Japanese passports to travel to and from Japan, it'll be unlikely that the Japanese authorities will notice. You technically won't be a Japanese citizen de jure but you can make sure you will treated as one de facto. Here's another forum's thread on the subject.

http://forum.gaijinpot.com/showthrea...izen-quot-myth

Probably teaching you to suck eggs though seeing as your wife holds three passports including a Japanese one!