Americaninlimbo

Having just talked with my father today, and not knowing where to place this so apologies now if it's in the wrong forum slot, but my father was recently re-issued his British Citizenship.

Long story short, but he was born in London. At age 6-7, moved to Australia with his parents. At age 16, moved to the US. Had citizenship for all three at one point, but around the late 60s, he joined the US armed forces and was somehow told he had to renounce foreign citizenship. Fast forward to the mid 70s, he now has my brother and I with a US citizen stateside. Now that he is retired, he was able to get his British Citizenship back and can now visit relatives in England at his leisure.

The wording I am getting from reading the citizenship through descent is unclear as he was but wasn't a British citizen when I was born, but was before and after, if that makes sense. He was under the impression we could become citizens, but only after 2yrs living domestic. Anyone had experience with something like this or can help straighten me out on where I fall in this spectrum?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers

BritInParis

Did your father make a formal application to the British and Australian governments to renounce his British and Australian citizenship? Similarly did he make an application to the Home Office to resume his British citizenship?

Americaninlimbo

Thanks for the reply. I just talked to him on the phone, since he's across the country. He clarified for me he had to use his British passport to immigrate into the US (damn Immigration Act we have here and classifying Aussies and Kiwis as Asian at the time) at the age of 13, not 16. He did make the application to the Home Office to resume his British citizenship in the past 6mo and they re-issued him a British passport.

So for clarification from him:
Born London in the late 1940s.
Moved to Australia aged 3.
Came to the US at age 13.
Here's where some stuff may be implied, and since his parents are both passed, some stuff is assumed. One of his younger brothers was born in Melbourne. When the family moved here, they all used their British passports because the US denied them on quota basis using Australian citizenship. So, my dad's understanding is that he somehow has Australian citizenship having lived there for ~7yrs and that his parents at the time seemed to somehow have it despite both being born and living in England/Scotland. They all did get denied entry until they used their British citizenship.
My uncle still has his Aussie (birth) and British (descent) passports and never bothered getting a US one (I'm still wondering why that is, but he's estranged from the family so...)

And my dad did confirm he, himself, never renounced any citizenships, but at 13, is he even capable of that? Or his parents for him? Not sure what the legality is there or if he can renounce, or if his parents did, could he still regain it?

Sorry if this is confusing, as when he tried to explain it to me, it was confusing. Just trying to do something for my old man, even if I may or may not get any byproduct out of it. Thanks again for any help.

BritInParis

As your father never made an application to the Home Office to renounce his British citizenship, did the Home Office actually confirm that your father had renounced his British citizenship when he made his application to resume? Was your father issued with a 'Certificate of registration as a British citizen' following his resumption application? He would have needed to attend a citizenship ceremony in order to receive it.

Americaninlimbo

Ok, well, it's an interesting way of connecting with my dad... I guess in the 50s, Australia was actively soliciting British citizens to immigrate with an offer of citizenship after 10yrs of residency (from what he remembers). He says he remembers some of the port stops and whatnot from the travel there (perhaps that's why he went into the US Navy later?). They apparently stayed in Australia for 10 1/2 yrs before moving to the US.

Following up with him for clarification on the British citizenship, the US at the time of his swearing into the US Navy, did not recognize dual citizenship? He was on a green card until then. He gained US citizenship through service but never renounced so when he contacted the Home Office, it sounds like he just needed to show that he was born in London, and they were ok with that and re-issued his passport so from my understanding, there was never any renunciation by parents, and definitely not by him.

The issue sounds like, for him now, showing that he resided in Australia under their auspices plan in the 50/60s offering citizenship because of underpopulation? He can show exactly when he immigrated into the US, but not sure he has definitive documentation on the arrival into Australia because of his age at the time. I know with the US, we have had registries of some sort (searchable by name in places like Ellis Island) documenting shipping line, name, date, etc. Is there anything like that for Australia?

What I gauge from the British by descent, my mother had to be British (she wasn't) so my father can't pass that down? If I read it right, I have to reside for 5yrs in England? With Australia, it seems more straightforward. If we can show proof of citizenship, then my brother and I can declare (after citizenship tests and swearing in) citizens. Not worried about my wife, physician, so she can fend for herself, lol.

Shirtback

There’s an awful lot of “noise” or “fluff” in your replies to BiP.

When were you born and where?

- Did your father renounce/reacquire British Citizenship or not? If all he had to do was apply for a new passport, he never lost or renounced his British Citizenship.

- Were *his* parents British citizens born in the UK? If so, you’re probably British by descent.

IOW: you might be making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Americaninlimbo

Yeah, sorry. Only got a half story from my dad, earlier.

To answer your questions:

-Born USA 1976.

-Father never renounced. Apparently, Britain never didn't recognize him, he just was a minor coming to the US via Australia. He acquired US citizenship when enlisting. He contacted HO a few months ago, showed them his birth certificate and they reissued his passport.

-His father was born in England, his mother in Scotland. He was born in London.

How would I go about showing/proving British citizenship then? I keep coming across "through the mother's side descent" which is what's throwing me.

BritInParis

To summarise:

- Your father never ceased to be a British citizen. His confusion may have been caused by the Oath of Allegiance during his US naturalisation ceremony in which he would have "absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen." This, however, would have had zero legal effect on his British citizenship. It appears he simply applied for a new passport from HM Passport Office which was duly issued.

- As your father is a British citizen by birth then, providing he was married to your mother at the time of your birth, then you are a British citizen by descent and have been since you were born. You merely need to apply for your British passport.

Start here: https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

- Whilst your father never ceased to become a British citizen, if he acquired Australian citizenship by naturalisation before emigrating to the United States, then he would automatically lost his Australian citizenship when he naturalised as a US citizen. This is because Australian nationality law restricted dual citizenship prior to April 2002. Since the law has been changed your father can resume his Australian citizenship and you can apply for Australian citizenship by conferral as the child of a former Australian citizen.

Resume: http://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Trav/C...cesses/resume/

Conferral: https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Trav/...ralian-citizen

- Your uncle may or may have not been aware of the relevant section of Australian nationality law but by not becoming a US citizen he will have remained an Australian citizen. If he wanted to he could now become a US citizen without affecting either of his other citizenships.

Americaninlimbo

-He was married, but she never applied or took British Citizenship at the time. She might? Would that affect our British Citizenship?

-That was a stumbling block I saw with Britain and didn't think about for Australia, so thank you there.

-Yeah, the uncle is estranged, and works with at risk teens now. He married a US citizen and had children here but as far as I know, never sought to gain US citizenship. At times, I don't blame him :/

Thank you much for the help on this! Just when I thought US laws were difficult... I'll try to follow up when I hear back from my dad and then again when I hear back from the HO.

BritInParis

No, only your father will have needed to held British citizenship at the time of your birth. In any case British mothers couldn't pass on their citizenship until 1983 so your mother's citizenship status is irrelevant.

No problem.

No good reason not to if the United States is his home. As a permanent resident he gets taxation without representation and remains liable to be deported.

It would good to hear your progress - you are very lucky to be entitled to the 'Holy Trinity' of passports! Btw you can apply for your Australian citizenship even if your father has no interest in resuming his own.

Americaninlimbo

Interesting on the Australian application. I assume I just need to show birth certificate and proof of residency on his part (having not yet gone through the intricacies of reading the application link you were good enough to send)?

I wish I had thought this option out when I was younger. Then I could while away my days playing Rhyman league or some lower level pub league football in Australia. I always did like XXXX.

BritInParis

A bit more than that. I would read through the instructions and come back to clarify if needs be.

Australia would've been my preference if I had your sporting talent!

Americaninlimbo

So a quick follow up with my father is:

-he's sending on his info for his British Citizenship. Got an email back from the Passport Help site for Britain and they are tentatively saying it all looks good and giving me a thumbs up to apply.

-Australia is on the cards as found my grandfather worked for the Ford in Broadmeadows for several years after they first arrived there. I am just waiting on the same docs from my father as I need for my British passport.

-Ironically, talking to my mother, I found she has most if not all docs needed for Irish citizenship for me. My grandfather (her father) was born in Co. Cork. Not sure of the ramifications there but that would be nice for EU ease of access. We'll see there.

Definitely going after the British. I've still got relatives miles from the Cockfosters stop outside London and I see them every few years. I'll try to keep updating, but as of now, seems the next update will be on application submission for Britain and again on Australia, then with oath in Chicago afterwards (nearest Consulate office to me).

Happy early New Year to you all. And thanks again for the help!

BritInParis

Four passports, eh? Quite the collection! Irish citizenship is certainly worth pursuing as well. Any future children of yours will be entitled to Irish citizenship unlike British which will mean unrestricted access to the UK and the EU after Brexit.

Americaninlimbo

So just recently heard back from the Home Office. Good to go as I qualified through descent. Have only to pay my passport application fees. Gotta say, they were amazingly fast and efficient getting back to me on this. I was much slower getting all the paperwork together and getting it to them in an orderly fashion. Unused to that after dealing with the US efficiency in all things administrative.

We're still working on tracking down the necessary papers for Australia (for my dad and I). Have found out some cool family history doing the research how they went to Australia on the Pom program and how my grandfather worked at the Ford plant for several years. His entry passport to the US had him listed as a farmer strangely enough.

I'll try to follow up again when we hear back one way or the other with the Aussie citizenship. As for the Irish, tracking down my grandmother (mom's side) birth certificate is proving an issue and may just need my undivided attention over a long summer some time to weed through all the old documents across several relatives across the US.

Either way, thanks again for all the advice and help from all here! Cheers.