Willgohome

OK so I'm a UKC born in London, Lambeth to be exact, 58 years old, although sometimes, well most of the time act and feel like a 30 year old lol . I have been married to my wife a USC for 15 years. I'm a self employed home remodeling carpenter in the states. I don't have much in the way of savings but I am furiously changing that and over the course of the next 2/3 years hope to save $30/$50.000 which I'm pretty certain I can do, or win the lottery .

Here's my question/strategy. Let's say I save the amount I mentioned above, move the money over to the UK into a bank account (I know I'll have to work on opening an account somehow, maybe an offshore account first?) then go to the UK with my wife, (on a regular visa for my wife) I'm thinking book a flight together for a typical holiday, say a couple or 3 weeks, supposedly to visit family, which I will do anyway and I have loads of family there, siblings, son etc.

We get there, I secure accommodation for us, register my self employed business and start work. My wife stays with me for 5 months ish and not overstaying the 6 month visa that usually is stamped in the passport. She then goes back to the states for say a month and stays with her daughter, then returns to the UK for a further 5 months ish, then returns to the states for a 2nd time and stays there and applies for a spouse visa. All the while I keep working until my self employment accounts total a full year and make sure I earn more than 18.600 pounds.

Does this strategy sound ludicrous or does it sound viable?

So does anyone have any sage advise? please tell me it sounds do-able

Englishmum

I guess you want to eventually retire in the UK? (I don't blame you, I don't want to grow old here in the USA ). First things first though: do you have a Green Card or are you a US citizen? If you only have a GC I strongly suggest that you apply for US citizenship before leaving for the UK. If you can't settle there and want to move back you have no worries if you are a US citizen; but this will be problematic if you are out of the US for long as a GC holder.

My husband is also British so I've never had to research taking a spouse in to reside in the UK. However - you did ask about opening a bank account.

I agree it would be a good idea to open an offshore savings account and to make regular deposits into it. It's very easy top open one on the Isle of Man, Jersey or Guernsey with one of the offshore centres of the UK 'High St' banks and building societies and they operate in pretty much exactly the same way as a UK mainland branch; when you move back permanently to the UK you can then just transfer your account to one of their local mainland branches to where you'll be living. Come to think of it, I think anyone resident in the UK for 90+ days a year becomes liable for UK taxes....which is why people like Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart and probably the Beckhams limit their time on trips 'back home'.

Our current/checking account is with Lloyds TSB on the I.o.M and also a savings account with the Britannia Building Society ( it is called Britannia International offshore - but it is owned by The Co-Op Bank). It means you are outside the mainland UK tax jurisdiction, but your money is 'safe' and up to a certain amount protected by the main UK authorities (unlike some dodgy offshore place elsewhere in the world!).

Some links FYI:

http://www.britanniainternational.com/

http://www.lloydstsb-offshore.com/

http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/se.../Bank-Offshore

http://www.nationwideinternational.com/

http://www.alil.co.im/default.aspx

(You can google yourself for more of the same for IoM, Jersey &/or Guernsey!)

Btw: we - and many other expats who use the forums here - transfer money to/from the UK with http://www.xe.com (also see http://www.xetrade.com)

You need to register first and they call you personally the first time you want to transfer money as they need to be satisfied that you're not an international money launderer! We have found that their rates are pretty good, much better than doing it through Chase (our US bank - which also adds extra fees in any case.)

Hope this helps - and good luck!

SanDiegogirl

I can see some obvious flaws in this plan (sorry )

Upon your first entry into the UK with your wife, the immigration guys suspect that you are not "just visiting" but have intentions to remain indefinitely. She is going to need a return ticket, but, you presumably will not have one since you are intending to remain. A big red flag; and her ticket will be showing a return date for some 5 months hence not the 2 to three weeks you say -how do you explain that?

They will certainly have those suspicions when your wife returns to the US and then almost immediately returns to the UK for another lengthy stay. She may not get re-entry at all.

Presume that the savings which you have already transferred will be for living expenses and any health costs for your wife.

I am wondering why, if you are a self employed carpenter in the US and have had this work for some time, could you not use your last year or last two years income accounts to fulfill the financial requirements?

If over the next year or next two years you can show that, as a self employed person you have earned the equivalent of 18,600 UKP (based on today's exchange rate that's about 29K USD) you will meet the financial requirements.

Read Paragraph 5.3.6/5.3.7 for the requirements for self employed person in the following document which gives all the details for UK immigration financial requirements.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary

Englishmum

Well - what I think he could do is to get two tickets (one for him and one for his wife) with the same dates for flying into the UK and departing the UK eg. say a 3-week visit to the UK. It is almost always cheaper to get a round-trip air ticket to buy a single one in any case. He wouldn't necessarily need to use his return leg, he could just tear his ticket up or get the date amended if he wanted or needed to make a short visit back to the US at a later date (must be within a year of the original departure date).

His wife - whilst in the UK - can call the airline and pay the fee for changing her return date back to the US. Before going ahead with booking the ticket it's best to call the airline and check that it's not a severely restricted (cheapest of all) ticket where they don't allow any changes. It would be best to book directly with the airline and not a third party eg. Travelocity, Orbitz, Expedia etc. as it would then be more complicated to change the ticket.

Here's an example: Last month I had the wonderful surprise of a trip from New York to Southampton on the Queen Mary 2 cruise liner - but it was a one-way cruise and I was to return from London Heathrow to Newark, NJ (a New York area airport) on Virgin Atlantic. When my husband went to book the air ticket he found it was much cheaper to buy a return air ticket than a one-way ticket. He picked a random date, 1st November, to fly from Newark to London.

In the meantime I was able to get US citizenship two days ago. I've applied for an expedited US passport and hope to receive it by mid-September. My spouse contacted Virgin Atlantic and they will allow a change to my ticket: they will impose a charge of $120 to change the original date and also whatever the difference may be in the fare class on the day that I do choose to fly, as he is now resident in Switzerland and I'm going to join him after having a brief sojourn in England.

I do agree with the rest of the previous comment though about having a long stay in the UK then leaving for a short time before returning to the UK again.

For people coming from the UK to the US it seems from the immigration boards on BE that the advice seems to be to stay out of the country for at least as long as the time you are visiting it eg. if you visit the US for 60 days, to then leave the US - not to Mexico or Canada though - for at least 60 days, preferably more - before trying to return to the States again.

Willgohome

Thanx to you both 'SanDiegogirl & English mum for both your insights on my 'strategy'.

To Englishmum, I really appreciate your help regarding an offshore bank account, I recently did a little research into this and thought that when I was ready (hopefully soon) that I'd go with the Co-Op bank, your links and additional information will be invaluable to my strategy and also the links for money transfer is much appreciated too!

To SanDiegogirl, I have been to the UK several times with my USC wife over the last 15 years and have always purchased round trip tickets and as suggested by Englishmum I would either just discard the ticket or purchase one that I could change the date for a fee so no worries there (I think I did this in the past already). Also, yes the transferred funds would be for living expenses and her health care costs, and I would start working within a couple of months max to add to the funds, I'd probably start advertising my services in a local paper to start generating an income.

I'll read the link about earning the required amount for a self employed UKC in the states because showing that I earned $30.000+ in the states would not be a problem as I can earn that in half that time. The thing is that for some reason I thought that I would 'have to' have a job offer upon returning to the UK, even though I'm self employed, am I wrong in assuming this?

I didn't realise that if my wife returned to the states for a month that she 'may' have a problem entering the UK again. Englishmum you referenced returning to the US? my wife 'is' a US resident, she was born there, SanDiegogirl was talking about returning to the UK, not the US.

Oh and I do have an American passport too.

Thanx again for taking the time to respond to my questions, it seems to me that I might be on the right track and if I'm diligent with my approach that this may actually work

Willgohome

I just found this at 5.4.2 "The applicant’s partner (or the applicant where they are in the UK) must be registered as self-employed in the UK".

Does this mean my self employment income has to be from self employment in the UK only (which is currently a part of my strategy) or as suggested by SanDiegogirl the income from self employment in the US prior to the spouse visa application could be used to qualify our situation? & as I mentioned earlier, would that be with or without a job offer in the UK, because I won't be applying for a job in the UK, I'll be registering my own business.

Hope that's not too confusing.

WEBlue

The problem is that after a 5 month stay in the UK with you, your USC wife cannot simply return to the US for one month and then come back to the UK for another 5 months without risk. The rule for tourist/visitors to the UK is 6 months per calendar year. She may not be allowed into the UK due to suspicions that she will overstay this 6/12 allowance.

From the UKBA rules on visitors/tourists:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/vi...tion/visiting/

Willgohome

Hi WEBlue, I checked out that link and I didn't see that particular ratio you stated, the 6/12 rule. I did however see the 6 month rule. Is the 6/12 ratio something that is more of a safety net so to speak that one would try to follow because you wouldn't want to 'push it' or is it a 'hard and fast' rule that seems to be utilised by the UKBA?

I'm thinking, and I've been known to be wrong lol, that by the time I re-patriate I'll be 60+ my USC wife will be 62+, by then I will be financially stable (self employed + savings + rented or owned property in the UK) and able to prove this, do you think that we would be the kind of 'dynamic' that they would be suspicious of disappearing and overstaying? I mean, what would they be concerned about if all the above were in fact reality?

WEBlue

The 6/12 months rule is not stated often on the UKBA website, & that's probably because MOST tourist/visitors do not stay for the maximum allowed. Staying in a country for 6 months is not the typical tourist-type visit, which is much shorter. But it makes sense that anyone spending MORE than 6 months in a foreign country without a settlement visa is not really there for tourist purposes - they're trying to settle without a visa.

In real life I've known two American women who've fallen afoul of this rule, even though their total stays in the UK didn't add up to 6/12. Still the IOs (Immigration Officials) did see a pattern of the 'possiblilty' of trying to settle without a visa (entry clearance).

Here's internal UKBA guidance for IOs on the 6/12 rule. It would be good for you & your wife to read all the "General Visitor" sections, but this is from p. 12.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary
It doesn't matter the age. American women in relationships with Brits entering the UK without a settlement visa (i.e. on a tourist/vistor stamp) are a category that is (unfortunately) known to UKBA to 'abuse' the 6/12 rule. She may get in fine, with no problem whatsoever, but there is a risk, as I said in my pp, that she could be refused entry ("bounced" they call it) & sent back to the US, thus wasting her ticket fare & possibly putting some kind of negative mark on her entry record.

Willgohome

OK, thanx WEBlue, I appreciate the document you linked and for your insight as to how my USC wife returning to the UK would throw up a red flag for the UKBA.

The purpose isn't for us to be underhanded (I know you're not suggesting this) but for my wife and I to be together as much as possible whilst I set up my business and work. Maybe another option would be for me to go to the UK initially and start work and perhaps after a couple of months she could fly out to the UK on a regular tourist visa, she could then stay for 5 months and return to the US, I would stay in the UK and continue to work and after a full year of accounts working as a self employed person I could then sponsor her spousal visa.

I would then go to the US so we would at least be together for a while and then return with her after she's granted approval. Does this sound reasonable as far as not breaking any rules?

The other question I have is the one that SanDiegogirl brought up, she suggested the possibility of me showing self employment income from working in the states for a full previous year that basically shows that I earned and paid taxes on an income over $30.000 in order to qualify for the 18.600 UKP necessary for sponsorship, does that make sense to you, because I was under the impression (I don't know why) that I would need a job offer whether I was self employed or not, but I have no intention of working for anyone else so I'm not sure how valid that would be.

All your input is very much appreciated

formula

Apart from the advice above on trying to live in UK on a visitor visa; don't forget to ensure she has full medical insuance if she isn't entering on a spouse visa; as only those who reside legally in the UK are allowed free NHS. A visitor is not residing legally.

There are new laws on chasing past offenders who owe the NHS. For non Brits, this means all bills over 1k have to be paid in full before they are allowed to enter or remain in the UK. For Brits' who owe money to the NHS, if their bill isn't paid, then they deduct their NHS debt from any future welfare payments i.e. state pension.

The spouse visa would be the better option and would count toward her 5 years to ILR (or 10 years if you can't show continued financial sponsorship I understand). DL has been removed for those that weren't granted this before 9 July 2012.

Willgohome

Thanx formula....we haven't availed ourselves of the NHS so we don't currently or in the past owe them any monies, so no worries on that front.

My wife would be in the UK for 5 months but not quite as much as 6 months as we certainly wouldn't want to jeopardize (should that be an s or a zed, dunno) her future spouse visa, and so if she needed medical attention I hope that the 30/$50.000. that I hope to have over the next 2/3 years would help towards that.

rebeccajo

I think it's also worthwhile to point out that anything could change with these new rules by the time you want to go over.

In the meanwhile, socking away your cash can never hurt!

Willgohome

Very true 'beccajo and I'm trying to be as positive as I can be about that, and in the meantime my middle name has become cash socka !

WEBlue

I'm afraid I don't know enough to answer well. (Maybe few of us know, since this is a new thing to most.) The link SanDiegogirl provided at the end of her post should contain answers your question. Paragraphs 5.3, 5.4 & 5.5 cover self-employment and how to prove self-employment income.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary

For a simplified look at what UKBA wants in the self-employed category, check out the coloured tables at the end of the document. These may help make it all a bit clearer.