BlueskyUS

Hello,

I am new to this forum but have been lurking all week while I try to find answers to my (many) questions.

I have been living in the US with my USC husband for 4 years but am now pretty much desperate to move back. When I left the UK I had no idea the rules would change this much and it would be so difficult to return.

I realised this week that we may meet the savings requirement for the spousal visa. However, we are on a very tight timeline as my husband is supposed to start a master's in the UK in September, so we have to move fast to ensure we have the funds untouched for 6 months.

My questions:
1. Does 401k balance count toward the savings requirement? I have seen conflicting advice everywhere, with some people saying we have to convert it to cash in a current account.
2. Does a mutual fund count toward the savings requirement?

I'd very much appreciate any help you can offer.

SanDiegogirl

There have been several threads on people applying using 401s, mutual funds, brokerage funds, IRAs etc and in some cases they have hit problems ie the funds not being taken into consideration.

This, I believe, is due to the fact that the financial requirements rules refer to cash deposits, and some funds, due to the fact they fluctuate are not considered as cash deposits.

So while your funds could be used as part of your savings/investment figure to make the financial requirements, if it was me, I would cash them out into a readily accessible bank deposit account.

formula

As your husband will be an international student, have you thought about using the Tier 4 student route for him to get to the UK?
https://www.gov.uk/tier-4-general-visa/overview

If he studies at a university, he will be allowed to work some hours a week and his income and yours can be used to meet the spouse visa financial requirements.

BlueskyUS

Thanks for the responses. We plan to apply for the student visa if we don't get the spouse visa (both applications will have to be expedited!). Long story short, we are not sure we would meet the requirements if we try to convert from student to spouse a year later.

SanDiegogirl, I couldn't find many posts relating to this -- several were from before 401ks were accepted and others were speculating.

A lawyer friend of mine pointed out that although the wording is somewhat contradictory, the government did make the effort to explicitly say that a 401k meets the definition of a cash savings account. It looks like we will have to be one of the guinea pigs for this rule, as we cannot afford to lose 30% of our retirement by cashing it out now.

Just as a side note to offer help to anyone else in the same situation, Appendix FM-SE outlines the requirements for cash savings:
1. 6 months of bank statements
2. Declaration of the source

It then outlines the types of savings that are acceptable:
1. Any form of bank/savings account that is accessible immediately ("This can include savings held in a pension savings account which can be immediately withdrawn.")
2. Competition winnings.
3. Investments/stocks/shares/bonds that have been converted to cash within the 6 month period.
4. The sale of a property.

Note that it is not saying that all 4 must apply, just that applicants can use any one or a combination of these sources.

CalitoManchester

Hey Bluesky,

You mentioned in this thread in January that you were going to be "guinea pigs" by trying to use 401(k) accounts to satisfy the financial requirements.

Did it work?

I am seriously contemplating doing this in the next week.

Thanks!

BlueskyUS

Hi,

We're in the home stretch of the application process - applying at the end of this month and trying not to lose my mind with the stress!

I was confused for a long time about the requirements for cash savings. Here's what I have learned though: in order to meet the requirements a 401k must be converted to cash. That doesn't mean you have to cash out the 401k into a regular bank account and pay the penalty, it just means you ask your broker to sell all your stocks and hold the money as cash within the same account. You're probably already aware of this, but it took me a while before I understood it.

What's your situation? A lot of my stress is coming from the excessive paperwork required when using several accounts to meet the 62,500, and showing the sources of all that income. If you're just using one 401k, I'm sure it's much more straightforward.

CalitoManchester

Hey there, still trying to wade through the vagueness in the Appendix re: 401(k) vs. IRA vs. money market accounts. So frustrating.

I am a USC who wants to move with his UKC wife and our two dual citizen children to the UK to accept a job offer from a well-known company. Company can't arrange a work visa as they have to prove that no one else in the EU can do the work in the same way, which is a very high bar to hurdle. Frustratingly, my potential income (which would cover the necessary salary minimum) of course can't be counted for some unknown reason so we will need to satisfy the financial requirements of a spouse visa in some other way. I'm contemplating whether to go the less certain route of a combination of 401(k)s and IRAs or whether to sell our house and wait to apply when that closes and the funds would hit our account.

Totally bewildered which to do at this point.

quiltman

I'm sure Ian will be along with detailed info but in the meantime
Have you looked here:https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/eligibility

This is what the employer has to do;https://www.gov.uk/government/public...killed-workers
This document specifies what occupations can and CANNOT be sponsored by an employer. As you do not say what your occupation is you'll have to read through it to see if you would be OK for sponsorship.

finally, here's the definition of the Resident Labour Market Test for employers:
https://www.gov.uk/uk-visa-sponsorsh...ob-suitability

Sounds like the company offering the job does not want to go through the hassle of getting a work visa! The shortage section only applies to the UK, NOT the entire EU.

coming via a spouse visa means that your wife, as the UKC, has to sponsor you, so SHE has to meet the financial requirements , your current/ future earnings are not counted. If you can raise the lump sum amount needed then this would be the quickest and easiest way to apply.

BlueskyUS

I understand how bewildering it all is, especially because it's hard to find examples of others using 401ks successfully. However, you really are in a great position compared to some others.

According to the rules, a 401k is eligible if you have converted the funds to cash (rather than investments) and you have held the funds >6 months.

The proceeds from a house sale are also eligible and you don't have to wait until you've held the proceeds for 6 months.

Both seem excellent options for you! Let us know which route you choose and we'll try to help as best we can.

HighCaper

Hi BlueSky

You seem to have investigated this subject quite a lot and wonder if you can help me ?

If I have funds in Unit Trusts/Shares in the Country I currently Live, will a monthly statement be acceptable as proof of having the money ? And when you say cash out, what do you mean ?

Also, what if I didn't want to repatriate that capital to the UK but rather repatriate the interest And live on that, can I do that or do they force you to move the capital ? The reason for this question is that our currency lost 40% of its value against the Pound 2 years ago and I'm hoping it will recover in the not too distant future.

Many thanks

michali

When they talk of cash savings, they mean can you withdraw the funds immediately, literally same day, if necessary, with or without penalty? If you have to give any notice, your savings would not be accepted by UKVI.

But once you have the visa, you do not have to repatriate all your money as far as I am aware.

BlueskyUS

I am far from an expert (and haven't even applied yet) but I have done a lot of research. Yes, statements over the 6 months minimum you have held the amount act as proof. You can do whatever you like with that money after you receive the visa, but bear in mind you'll need to prove you meet the financial requirements for future visas.

It's not just about being able to withdraw the funds immediately, although that is one requirement for the visa.

"Cash savings" means selling all your stocks/bonds and holding them in cash, rather than investments. This doesn't mean you have to move the money out of the account. It just means you have to ask your broker to sell your shares and hold the funds in cash.

This requirement makes sense: If your money is in stocks/shares, its value fluctuates and therefore how is anyone to know whether you meet the financial requirements? What if the stock market crashed the day after you applied?

You just need to prove you held the money for at least 6 months before the date of application and cash it out at some point during those six months. The amount that you are allowed to use toward the financial requirement is the lowest amount those investments were worth over the six months (even if you cash them out at a higher value than what they were worth in month 1).

Edited to add: Read Appendix FM Section 1.7 for further info on financial requirements: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...equirement.pdf

BlueskyUS

Please ignore my advice on this thread. My husband and I each received incorrect advice from our brokers six months ago.

In January they said we definitely can liquidate our 401ks and keep the cash funds in the same account. Today, when we tried to do just that, they said we are not able to.

Since we also cannont move the funds from one account to another within the 6 month period, we have no idea what we're going to do. We have nearly sold all our possessions but it looks like we cannot move back home as planned.

SanDiegogirl

Sorry to hear about this.

Can you not just cash them out and liquidate them? You have held the monies for 6 months at time of application I understand.

BlueskyUS

Unfortunately that would drop us below 62,500, as the funds would take a 30% hit.

I don't know if we have another avenue open to us. I don't suppose anyone knows of any successful cases where someone used a 401k without cashing it out?