englishguygoinghome

We are just filling in form NTL (this one: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...in-uk-form-ntl) at the moment to apply for a BRP for my wife, who has ILE but needs to renew her passport soon.

At question 3.12 they ask:
I'm wondering why they ask and how this information is relevant / used in future (e.g. a citizenship application). Does anyone have any thoughts?

WEBlue

Hmm, I would question the relevance too. Your wife has her ILE/ILR, and there's no question that her life is centred in the UK. But that last sentence--not bullet-pointed--seems strange.

I can understand them wishing to reaffirm the info on the country of her birth; that makes sense. And perhaps info on any other country(ies) whose passport(s) she holds is germane as well. (Is this asked on other previous Home Office applications?)

But asking about family and friends living in those countries, and what other "ties" to the countries she has? That would give me pause, quite frankly. Is this really necessary for the HO to know?? Not sure how I would answer were I in your wife's shoes....

englishguygoinghome

Nope - I've never seen that question before and it's not even on form AN for naturalisation!

michali

I am surprised too as those questions are on the FLR(M) which I guess is to allow the Home Office to send you "home" if you do not meet requirements to remain. These questions seem to pop up unexpectedly sometimes, similar to the applicant's information on employment now when applying for a spousal visa when the applicant's employment is supposed to be irrelevant! This reminds applicants to always check the latest forms for any kind of visa but, as you say in this instance, appears totally irrelevant.

englishguygoinghome

Aha - then that explains it's appearance here, assuming NTL is primarily a copy & paste exercise. We never needed FLR(M) as we got ILE under the old rule 281b

chaoclive

I know it doesn't help you but these questions are in both the EEA3 and the EEA4 applications as:

9.12. Please state what ties you have with;
• The country where you were born
• Any other country whose nationality you hold
• Any country where you have lived for more than 5 years
You should tell us about any family, friends, or other connections with that country.

Just thought I would point that out as I have seen them before. Not sure that they're relevant.

michali

It is probably cut and paste into each application, regardless!

WEBlue

I'm still wondering what the purpose this request for info about family, friends, and "ties" to other countries serves. On any application. Is it so the Home Office has a record of where in the world people close to the applicant are located?

This suggests to me that, if an applicant has a passport to a country where significant family & friends are living, some might say that applicant could be refused a British passport with less pain than an applicant who has most family and friends inside the UK....

michali

I think it is exactly that WEBlue! Not even as far as giving a British passport, but maybe a reason to refuse a visa! It worries me as they might say when applying for FLR or ILR, 'we don't see any reason why you cannot go back and live in either your country of birth or in any country in which you have lived for five years'! No matter you have given up everything in those countries and moved everything to the UK, including your money! To be very honest, I am not sure I want us to get the spouse visa anymore as I will be living in fear of our being refused on the next application, or the next! For us, as for most people, it would be devastating.

Or the reason could be that, if you do not meet the requirements, they want to know if you could in fact return to your country of birth.

englishguygoinghome

With NTL there's no risk of being declined, as it's not a new visa application to be decided, just a new peice of paper realted to an old decision.

Another possible use would be to help argue UK domicile (or until last April non-domicile) for inheritance tax purposes thus filling the government's coffers further. Do the ex-UKBA share data with HMRC?

WEBlue

This is very true, but once that info re: the applicant's family, friends and "ties" outside the UK is logged in to the Home Office's system, can it be used further down the line in making another decision on the applicant's "fitness" (for lack of a better word) for the next visa, or for ILR or naturalization. It's a bit concerning.

Hmmm, this is interesting. And--to my mind at least--a little less sinister.

englishguygoinghome

On inheritance tax:
I'd consider it to be more sinister personally. In general wonder how people will feel when they start to realise that the UK will not allow them to return with their spouse at the moment, but will try to claim 40% of their estate when they die. And what about the spouse, who fills this in honestly, gets their visa denied for other reasons and then dies suddenly - having left a papertrail showing clearly that they were UK domiciled?

michali

So true, sometimes wonder if I really want to go back! But regardless of whether we go back or not, my children will still have to pay Inheritance Tax when we die!

WEBlue

Hmm, I see what you mean. Something to consider for older couples ... or anyone really.

JAJ

Your children probably won't have to pay anything, at least not directly. Inheritance Tax is paid by the estate, in general - not the beneficiaries.

Why do you think Inheritance Tax would apply if you never return to the U.K.?