gordon_matt

Hello all,

I need some advice. Here's my situation:

1. I am a UK citizen

2. My wife is Vietnamese, but we’ve known each other since 2005 and married since 2007

3. We were married in the UK

4. We have a son who was born in the UK in 2009. He is a UK citizen by birth

5. We have been living in Vietnam from mid-December 2009 until now

6. I want to return to the UK with my wife and son, but the border agency is telling me I need to prove an income of £18,600 per year or have £65,000 in savings. This will be easy only once I actually get to the UK, as I am a software developer and will earn more than enough… but they want me to somehow have a job before I arrive?!? More than this I am told that I need to prove an income of the equivalent of £18,600 per year with the last 6 months of bank statements. This is impossible for various reasons:

a. Only my wife has a bank account here, not me. I haven’t needed one
b. I have been studying for the last year and a half
c. The money that I was getting from part time work is nowhere near enough. Even if I was working full time I wouldn’t have that much. In Vietnam, that much is a fortune!

7. I need confirmation, but someone told me my wife may have the right to life in the UK because her husband and son are both UK citizens and that we were married there in the UK as well.

I don’t want to leave my wife here in Vietnam while I go get a job in the UK first, especially now that she’s pregnant as well. But it seems I am being forced to do so.. as there seems to be no alternative but for me to go back by myself and work for 6 months away from my little boy and my pregnant wife. Surely this is unreasonable.. especially the part about my needing to prove my income from here even if I get a job offer in the UK which far exceeds the minimum amount required. That’s insane. Surely that’s considered against human rights or something?!? All I want is to move back to the UK and move on with my life now.

What can I do? As far as I can tell I have no choice but to go back by myself. I hope there's another way around, but if not.. does anyone know if it's possible to apply for her after getting my first month's salary or do I really need to wait until I have 6 months worth of bank statements?

This is inhuman... I feel like I'm being punished for having a foreign wife.. :-(

englishguygoinghome

Sadly as a British Citizen you have no hard-and-fast constitutional or legal right to live in the UK. So even though you have the right to a family life the home office are quite within their rights to say "live somewhere else and then you can be together".

There is an ongoing appeal (google "MM UK spouse visa appeal" where the first court ruled that the principle is OK but the numbers are too high. The next instance has heard the case and we are awaiting a verdict. Whatever happens there expect at least one more level of appeal.

As for your options:
- Yes, you can apply earlier than 6 months after getting a UK based job - depending on the salary. You must show you have earned 18,600 in the past 12 months. So the required annual salaries are:
- apply after 1 month: 223,200
- 2 months: 111,600
- 3 months: 74,400
- 4 months: 55,800
- 5 months: 44,640
- 6 months: 18,600
any unearned income either of you have (pensions, insurance payouts, rental income etc) can help towards the 18,600 in 12 months figure as well.

Other alternatives are
- to find a visa which you wife can get on her own merit: work, study etc.
- be a weekend commuter from somwhere else in the EU (train via the tunnel or flight)
- get a job elsewhere in the EU and avoid going to the UK entirely

gordon_matt

@englishguygoinghome, thanks for the reply. I have recently heard some info about the Surinder Singh route as well. I get the basic idea, but I wonder if you or someone here can shed some light on a couple of questions regarding it... forgive the ignorance of this question, but as a British citizen (naturalized), can I just hop on a plane to ANY EU country without any kind of visa? More importantly, what is the procedure for a non-EU spouse? If I go to Ireland or France for example, will I need to get her some kind of entry visa? Finally, how do I get her into the UK after those 3 months? What's the procedure? This is the kind of info that's always missing in the articles I have found online about the Surinder Singh route.

formula

You won't get her into the UK after 3 months using Singh. That all changed this year.

If you are after the quickest and the safest immigration route to the UK for your wife, that will be for you to sponsor her and show that you can afford to do this by meeting the financial requirements (after 6 months in your case). It will be a Spouse visa and not the Marriage visa, that you have in your title. A Marriage visa is for those who want to come to the UK to marry and then leave again.

mikelincs

Factually that isn't true, as a British citizen he has the constitutional right to live in the UK, it's his wife that doesn't and needs the visa.

formula

How does that work? If he is working in the UK, then how would he be exercising his EU rights in another EU country?

Even if there was a way to do as you suggest, with a pregnant wife and the OP not working in that EU country, wouldn't he have to pay for the healthcare of his family?

gordon_matt

So basically I have no option but to leave my pregnant wife and 5 year old son alone in Vietnam while I go back to the UK myself, work for 6 months to prove income and then wait who knows how much longer for the application to be approved (I read one guy's application took 10 months)... I would expect that kind of thing from a communist country like the one I'm living in.. I wouldn't have expected that from the UK... honestly...

amelirina

Hi, we are in a very similar situation and considered all possible ways, including Surinder Singh.

answering your first question, "You have the right to work in any country in the European Economic Area (EEA) without a work permit if you’re a UK citizen." from www.gov.uk.

with regards to procedure for a non-EU partner http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en..._national.html

However, I would consider the fact that UKBA knows about this trick (apparently) and can still refuse in visa if they find your job in Europe suspicious. Try reading people's stories that are shared on this forum to assess pros and cons...

BNice

If you and your son are both British then both of you can go back any time, no questions. Your wife could join you as a tourist/family visitor - good for six months but she wouldn't be allowed to work or study (except a very short course) and would have no entitlement to public funds/benefits. You would hopefully get a job earning enough in that time but she would have to return to Vietnam to apply for a settlement visa (with or without you).

mikelincs

It's all to ensure that immigrants will not be a burden on the benefit system when they arrive, all part of the governments crack down on immigration and the cost of the welfare system. It's the same for all immigrants, EXCEPT those from EU countries.

englishguygoinghome

Given that the UK has no written constitution and none of the written laws give this right I'll admit to arguing a technicality Yes, the judiciary generally accept a common-law right to live in the UK but that's not the same in my eyes as the EU right to free movement or a formally ratified constitution.

Healthcare would depend upon the rules of the country in which he resides. As an IT employee in London he may well be able to obtain suitable private coverage part subsidised by his company.

As for how it would work - have a read up on the "love bridge" between Malmö and Copenhagen. There is a large population of Danes in Malmö sweden who commute daily to Denmark simply because it is the easiest way for them to live with their foreign spouse. Every EU citizen has the right to move and reside freely within the EU (as long as they do not become an immediate burden upon their host state), this includes the ability to live in one state and work in another.

From an EU perspective the recent rulings seem to be moving more and more towards a widening of the freedoms which can lead to a Singh-like status (e.g. regular business trips from your home country to another EU one are enough in some circumstances) but at the same time to a more holistic view of "geniunely exercising those freedoms" - this could be due to length of stay, integration or could also be "strengthening of family ties" during the time. In my laymans opinion, the birth of a first child could likely be construed by the EU authorities as a strengthening of ties, not sure about the birth of a second child.


None of the options are easy. In the OP's shoes I would not leave a pregnant wife and another child for 6 months plus (2 months to find a job, 6 months working, 2 months to apply for the visa, 1 month to organise their flights, household shipping etc. = 11 months, so the child will be at least 2 months old by then).
I'd probably either go somewhere else in Europe where there is a good, strong IT sector and worry abotu getting to the UK later. Or I'd do the weekly commute and try to organise to work from home for 2 days a week. Or maybe I'd try to get my wife on a 12 month course of study which is flexible enough to cope with the pregnancy but qualifies for a student visa. Then I'd change to spouse ASAP and all live together in the mean time.
Right now I'd be heavily researching all the options, the costs (money, time, stress) of each.

mikelincs

Assuming she was allowed in, that isn't a guarantee, as has been discovered by some of the members on here.

englishguygoinghome

A pregnant wife (even one with a job) visiting her husband, who works and lives in the UK, and her other child is highly unlikely to be granted a visitor visa. It will be seen as circumventing the spouse visa requirements and may lead to a 10 year ban on entry if you are very unlucky and get the wrong official on a bad day.

formula

To be fairer to the UK taxpayer, the UK has had a massive clampdown on welfare payments, with many more major changes to come. Part of this welfare clampdown was that nearly 2 years ago, they changed the rules so that sponsors must now show that they can afford to sponsor someone to the UK. Before this, the UK's welfare state often financed them.

You can go and work in another EU country, but you won't get your wife into the UK in 3 months that way. If you use the EU route, you will also have to mindfull of any retrospective EU rule changes, or the UK leaving the EU, before your wife gets citizenship of the UK.

Once she has a UK spouse visa, she will not be affected by any new UK immigration changes or any EU changes.

If you are confident of being able to earn enough to sponsor your wife, the quickest route to the UK for her (and the safest) will be a UK spouse visa.

formula

Even if she did manange to get in on a visitor visa, she wouldn't get free NHS. The OP would have to pay for all her healthcare, even for her pregnancy and birth. The NHS bill would have to be paid before she could have a spouse visa.