BristolUK

I think squirrel was referring to what I'd originally said in my post - number 18.

I was thinking of where a couple might find themselves in unfortunate circumstances - rather than by design, which is what the changes are supposedly about - and then hit difficulties and find the route back to the UK is blocked for both even though they may have been married 20 years. I gave a couple of examples following that post.

Panhandle

Totally understand where you are coming from, some will suffer more than others with these changes. Unfortunately this is the world we live in now, everything is scrutinised, nobody is believed, its a shame really that it has come to this, i only hope that common sense will prevail in many cases.

pennylessinindia

yes it is.

I have put my comments on the consultation for what it is worth. I think this has potential to a big issue for a number of mixed national marriages returnees and potential ones .

Can the consultation link or something be on the front page of the site. I am sure there are other folk who use the site and do not look at this area as not thinking of returning yet who will be surprised to see some of the proposals.

BristolUK

I wonder.

If the foreign spouse has their own income, is that included in the calculation of the sponsor's/spouse's income?

Squirrel

If it will continue after they move to the UK, yes. However in most cases it won't as jobs have to be given up and only things like pensions continue.

I disagree with what you said about the medical treatment thing and I'd hate to see health being taken into consideration and spouses with pre-existing refused permission to live in the UK. The people you quoted as having no need of treatment but only wanting £10 a week housing benefit may be well now, but in a second that could change to needing expensive treatment via an accident or sudden illness.

If a lot more countries start down the medical screening process there will doubtless be married couples who are totally unable to live together in either country. It could even happen now. Say a couple meet via a website for cancer sufferers, one Canadian, one Aussie. Neither is capable of passing the medical requirement to emigrate to the other's country. So they could be married for years having to just visit each other.

I'm so glad and proud the UK doesn't bar sick spouses and it made my blood run cold to see the proposal of making spouses take out private medical insurance. I really hope the UK doesn't go down that route. It'd be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I can't think many people would marry someone they didn't love to get them free medical treatment.

Squirrel

Oh and the total number of family visas granted each year (about 40 thousand) is really a very small number in the scheme of things. Ten times as many immigrants from Eastern Europe settle in the UK each year. And of the family visas granted, some will eventually move away from the UK. And some Brits will get spouse visas for other countries.

I like the way they compare the UK system to all the countries that give non EU spouses a much worse time than the UK rather than those that treat them better.

formula

I thought you said you read uk-yankee? Look on there at the "did you marry a Brit for the NHS" threads. And the many "can I have free NHS as soon as I arrive" posts. They have a board dedicated to healthcare (NHS).

On that list they have even said that the men they meet on the internet, tend to be on welfare, as they have time to spend posting on the internet.

Now there are posts on there discussing this consultation and about how worried they are that those Brits that live on welfare, won't be able to sponsor anyone. They were warned last year by another poster that the UK might copy the US in making sure the sponsor really can afford to pay for their partner.

The government wants to stop sham marriages. It's a vote winner.

Squirrel

I don't read that board. I used to read americanexpats which is a similar thing. I never heard of anyone in my years on that board who married someone purely to get the NHS. Americanexpats has a healthcare sectyion too. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to know what the healthcare arrangements are. On britishexpats people going to the USA often post about finding health insurance. It's naturally something people are going to be concerned about, esp the many families who have children. That's different than getting married to someone from the UK purely to get free healthcare.

I don't mind the government making sure people really can afford to support their partner. That's a completely different issue than saying people who have pre-existing conditions don't deserve to be allowed to live in the UK with their British spouse. And considering all the cases of people on visitor visas who come to Britain and use the NHS, I would have thought trying to target foreign spouses would be much less of an obvious way to save money.

You are right that is is probably a vote winner. Even though I don't agree with it, most Brits could care less about foreign spouses. Until they meet one and want to bring them here. Because it affects such a small percentage of the population they have no say in the matter so the Daily Mailesque policy will probably go through.

I think one way they could cut down is by not allowing permanent residents to sponsor a foreign spouse. Make you have to be a British citizen. The US is similar in that citizens can sponsor a spouse immediately, PRs can too be it takes years and years to get a visa allocated.

NatalieLucy

So basically he'll be a resident for 5yrs before he can apply for citizenship. How will applying now avoid this? Once he's filled for ILR and we are there next year the rules would have changed and he'll have to wait out the 5yrs. Or do they go off the date of when you applied for ILR?

Bluegrass Lass

If you don't apply now, then your OH will not have ILR status for 5more years. He'll be on Leave to Enter for 5 years, which is considered a 'temp' status. So, if during this 5years, you die cuz you get hit by a bus, your spouse has to go home as he would have no basis for applying for ILR.

This is what I'm concerned about mainly. We are planning a move back to the UK within the next 2mo from the US. We have been married for 7+years (so no sham marriage here).

What if a couple has a child or two during this 5 years that they are on temp status, and around year 4ish, they break up. So is the foreign spouse just supposed to up and leave their kids because they have no right to stay there? I can see this new requirement for 5 years causing greater family strife as the foreign spouse will need to just stay with the UK spouse, no matter what, in order to be allowed to stay (assuming there are children involved).

Also, will they set up something like VAWA here in the US to allow abused spouses to stay, or will they just expect abused spouses to leave the country? I can see an abusive UK spouse taking advantage of this, trapping the foreign spouse in the marriage because otherwise they will be forced to leave their kids.

And I don't deny this requirement for health insurance for an immigrant spouse is making me nervous as hell. I have a pre-existing condition that I will have the rest of my life. I know here in the US, I can be denied private health insurance because of it. Is this the same in the UK? I know when we looked into this 8 years ago (before he moved here to the US), that BUPA would not cover my pre-existing. Therefore, how am I supposed to get treatment for my condition, if private health insurance won't it, and they don't want NHS to pay for it since it would be a burden on the taxpayer? No one has the kind of money it takes to pay 100% out of pocket for treatment of a disease for the rest of ones life. It's basically a backdoor way to exclude foreign spouses if they have pre-existing conditions.

Formula1, you have a decidedly twisted way of looking at those posts on UK-Yankee. We in the US have no idea of what to expect of the NHS, and its normal to ask if a spouse is able to use it. I can't believe that you assume if someone is asking if they qualify for it, that this is the sole reason they are marrying someone from the UK?!? If anything, most Americans have always been told that universal healthcare will kill you, so are afraid of it, so don't blame them asking questions about something they know nothing about. Heck most of the posts in that NHS forum are frustrations over using it, not people gleefully rubbing their hands together that the only reason they married a UKC was to use the NHS.

NatalieLucy

I see I think I'm understanding now. So the change will be that when you go over on a spousal visa you can't apply for ILR right away? You have to wait 5yrs on temp status. Then after that apply for permanent residency ILR. Can you apply for citizenship right away after that then?

When will a final decision on all this be made? If we move before they implement it in April 2012 and get ILR before the change, when can you apply for citizenship 3 or 5yrs?

pimpmycode

So far the only proposed requirement i can see that might affect applicants chances of being granted a spousal visa is:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...mily-migration

Is this correct or are there other items in the proposal that may affect a foreign spouse from being granted a visa?
I also wonder what the proposed minimum income threshold for sponsors of partners will be?

formula

I do feel sorry for you: by accident of birth, you have ended up in a country that will let you die for lack of healthcare. It's even more disgusting that this is a western county and probably the only western country that does that and even some 3rd world countries have a healthcare system! I can also understand why you want to get to a country that has a national healthcare system to get your existing conditions treated, but you aren't the only one doing this and the UK simply can't continue to be the world's health service.

It's strange that you think the UK tax payer should pay for your healthcare as your own country won't: but this seems to be common of the type of posts on uk-yankee.

I've even seen posts on there where, strangely, posters have said that the UK likes paying for US citizens! What's that all about?

Perhaps you should direct your anger at your own government?

As you have just said, you have existing conditions and may not be able to get cover in the US. From reading the posts on uk-yankee, you are not alone on this. I haven't seen any posts on there asking about paying for healthcare in the UK, but I have seen a lot from Americans' asking about getting free help for existing conditions as soon an the arrive in the UK.

Did you find the thread on uk-yankee entitled something like 'Did you find a Brit to marry for the NHS'?

ANGIE1956

Can someone tell me if uk-yankee is a completely different website, or is it part of this site, and i am just missing it?

formula

It's a different website.

It doesn't seem to be a site for those Americans' looking for work visas to the UK. When someone arrives on that site looking for these working type of visas, they are directed to the immigrationboards website.