grpd

Hi,
I've read some interesting threads on here regarding visas for the non-EU citizen spouse of a returning Brit. I was hoping to get some help for my exact situation as it seems some people on here really know their stuff.

Background: Me - British, Husband - US passport, French residency (10 year carte de séjour), both lived and worked in France, now both living and working self-employed in Lebanon. I probably wouldn't work in the UK, my husband would keep his current job and work remotely.

We are thinking of returning to the UK for a few years. It probably wouldn't be permanent, but might make sense to stay the three years required for my husband to get citizenship.

It seems it could be easier and cheaper to get a EEA Family Permit rather than a visa for this move.

From what I have understood, if we opt for a visa, I personally need to have either over 60 grand in savings or income of over 18,600 pounds a year. My non-EEA partner's earnings are discounted. I don't. But by then we may have enough rental income from property in France to meet this threshold. Does that count? Would mortgage repayments be deducted from any rental income? These are short term lets on property we own jointly.

However, if we opt for a Family Permit, are there are no financial requirements? This Border Agency link on Supporting Documents doesn't mention any.

My only concern about the Family Permit is that sources say that I (the EEA partner) need to have been exercising treaty rights at the time of application. Actually UKBA says:

If the EEA national is a British citizen, you must provide evidence that:
they have been working or are self-employed in another EEA member state; and
you have been living with them in the EEA state, if you are their spouse or civil partner.

While I was living and working in France, then I would have been exercising treaty rights. If necessary we could go back to France for a few months before moving to the UK, but I would have to stop work if I did. Apart from work, do I fit into other categories of exercising treaty rights? Some non-official sites mention being "self-sufficient" and seem to suggest I could be considered self-sufficient thanks to 1) my husbands earnings, and possibly also 2) health insurance (though maybe no 2 is only required for non-Brits). Or could I be "self-sufficient" thanks to my rental income?

Since we actually still have a home in France and my husband has the French residency card, and most of our 'supporting documents' would be French it makes sense to apply from there as EEA residents I guess.

Sorry this is such a complicated bunch of questions. I'd be interested in any official links with information, as the UK Border Agency site doesn't seem to cover all of it.

Many thanks if you got this far!

englishguygoinghome

My personal opinion is you're best of going via France. Technically you may be OK if you are "looking for work" in France. Realisitically getting a part time job as a clening lady for minimum wage for 4 hours a week woudl be abetter box ticker.

As for the rental income - If you go to the UKBVA website, on the left you will find policy and law. Under there there are two sections of interest - the immigration rules (in particular appendix FM-SE - which details the official rules for specified evidence for the financial requiremen) and the IDIs (immigration directorate instructions - under internal guidance - this is the rulebook given to the people who process visa applications). I'd suggest reading each fo those and comparing it to your exact situaiton as the specifics can be important.

Hotscot

"We are thinking of returning to the UK for a few years. It probably wouldn't be permanent, but might make sense to stay the three years required for my husband to get citizenship."

Isn't it five years now?

WEBlue

Yes.

Settlement (ILR) is now 5 years for spouses entering the UK on a spouse visa. Since one can't even apply for British naturalization until ILR is attained, this effectively means 5 years to British citizenship.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...nts/65-fam-set

grpd

Oh wow - thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure I had seen three years recently... or maybe I was just stuck on the previous rules.

WEBlue

Yes, I'm sure you have. 3 years to British naturalization is still on several prominent pages of the UKBA website, but that only holds true for those who received their spouse visas BEFORE 9 July 2012, and fall under the old rules. I think myself that UKBA should make this distinction clearer on all the pages that cover spouse ILR or British citizenship.

The ILR bit is clearly stated here:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...nts/65-fam-set

grpd

Thanks for that. It really makes a difference. What exactly does it mean by 5-year family route and 10-year family route? Are there specific visas which allow that length of stay? Are the requirements stricter for the 10 year one? Does the Family Permit fall into one category or another, or do you just enter on the Family Permit and then within six months apply for one of the others to prolong the stay?

What I find confusing is that I thought I had the right to take my husband back to live with me...but the requirements are so tight as to make it nearly impossible!

SanDiegogirl

With the greatest of respect the only people who have right to live in the UK with no restrictions/rules are British citizens.

Put it like this your husband, as an American, has no right to move back to the US with you. You need a visa to enter the US.

rebeccajo

And with the greatest of respect, EU and UK law both enshrine the right of a British Citizen to a family life.

SanDiegogirl

Agree ...... I don't believe I have ever said it did not

englishguygoinghome

As do international, UN, resolutions which the UK has signed up to.

Sure, an American married to a BC doesn't have a right to live in the UK but the BC does or at least should have a right to live in the UK AND a right to live with their spouse which cannot be mutually exclusive.

dunroving

I think having a right to something and having an automatic right without constraints are two different things. The US doesn't simply allow non-USC spouses to walk in and start living and working in the US, there are certain procedures.

Having said that, the new regulations don't address concerns with "opportunistic immigration" (aka arranged marriages), they simply seem to have introduced prejudice based on your financial status.

rebeccajo

The US system screens out marriage fraud on a case by case basis. All applicants are interviewed face to face. In nations whose citizens have a "track record" of scamming Americans, the interviews are very harsh. By contrast, interviews for Brits applying for a US spousal visa are almost cursory (I've often heard it called "easy peasy").

Re: financial requirements for a US visa are set low enough that nearly any working American, living anywhere in the country, will qualify as a sponsor. Need to offset what you earn with savings? That bar too is lower than the new UK rules, as it doesn't require a "floor amount". Joint sponsorship is permitted by sponsors entering into a contract with the US government to pay back means-tested benefits if the immigrant applies for benefits before a certain time frame.

The US system is more concerned with keeping out terror suspects and fraudsters than it is keeping out undesirable "poor people".

dunroving

Yep, that is essentially what I was trying to say - most countries have some procedures, but the new UK regulations seem much too onerous financially.

Another unfortunate side-effect of the new UK points-based immigration system and the supposed immigration cap is that it is making things very difficult for international students. Similar to the non-UKC spouse situation, the indirect effects seem to be great while the effect on the intended target (scam students) seems minimal.

formula

The idea is that students' should want to come to the UK to study, instead of just using it as a way to get UK citizenship; which is what has been happening.

Students' that are wanted by companies, will get picked up on the milk run and get sponsored with a Tier 2 visa as a path to UK citizenship (5 years). The international students' also have their final year and four months after their studies, to find a graduate job with a company that will sponsor them. That way, the UK gets a chance to keep the "brightest and the best" and the others that are not wanted by companies, will return home after their studies. The student visa was never intended as a route to citizenship for all students', but it has been abused in the past.

Before the new rules, the international student could remain a student for 10 years and them claim ILR (even if they couldn't find anyone to employ them). Or they could do low skilled jobs like stacking shelves in a supermarket; taxi driver etc, for 5 years after their studies and them get ILR, by using the Tier1 and PSW visas. Both of those visas have now been closed.