Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Mar 4th 2011, 9:01 am
#1
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 306
Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Hello all,
I have confusion, and information overload, both running around my tired brain.
What a mine field this topic is.
I have a situation, which I think, I know the answer to, but don't want to trip up at UKBA.
I am British citizen, born in UK.
My new wife is Chinese, and we are living in China.
Therfore she is Non EEA.
There are 2 routes as I understand for her to live in UK with me.
ROUTE 1 via UKBA and UK immigration
1. The Spouse visa for UK, this entails her getting an A1 level examination, in China, costing about £1000, (in English) she is excellent English speaker, just expensive.
2. Apply UK spouse visa, and pay about £1000.
Then provide about 5kg of documents and evidence of an ongoing relationship, and marriage.
This is expensive, and time consuming.
ROUTE 2. via EEA and Non EEA Spouse.
1. I move to am EEA member state, eg: Netherlands, and set up residence, (rent apartment)
2. Register with police or city hall, that I live there in my apartment
3. We exercise the 2004/38/EC and go to the Beijing Embassy of the Dutch, and request "family stay permit"
I believe this is the right name, and it is free, and must be given to her within 4 weeks.
5. We get on a plane, together to Amsterdam, and when she arrives, she also registers with the police, and city hall, that she also lives at my apartment.
6. After 3 months or more, in Netherlands, we apply for a "unknown document" which allows her unhindered entry to UK.
The EEA route is in my view, more easy.
Sure, she will take longer to get UK citizenship, but times not a promlem.
Regarding the EEA route.
Please show me what I have missed, and the downfalls, pitfalls, the tripping up things.
Please, Thanks I know you guys will have the answers I need.
'vette
I have confusion, and information overload, both running around my tired brain.
What a mine field this topic is.
I have a situation, which I think, I know the answer to, but don't want to trip up at UKBA.
I am British citizen, born in UK.
My new wife is Chinese, and we are living in China.
Therfore she is Non EEA.
There are 2 routes as I understand for her to live in UK with me.
ROUTE 1 via UKBA and UK immigration
1. The Spouse visa for UK, this entails her getting an A1 level examination, in China, costing about £1000, (in English) she is excellent English speaker, just expensive.
2. Apply UK spouse visa, and pay about £1000.
Then provide about 5kg of documents and evidence of an ongoing relationship, and marriage.
This is expensive, and time consuming.
ROUTE 2. via EEA and Non EEA Spouse.
1. I move to am EEA member state, eg: Netherlands, and set up residence, (rent apartment)
2. Register with police or city hall, that I live there in my apartment
3. We exercise the 2004/38/EC and go to the Beijing Embassy of the Dutch, and request "family stay permit"
I believe this is the right name, and it is free, and must be given to her within 4 weeks.
5. We get on a plane, together to Amsterdam, and when she arrives, she also registers with the police, and city hall, that she also lives at my apartment.
6. After 3 months or more, in Netherlands, we apply for a "unknown document" which allows her unhindered entry to UK.
The EEA route is in my view, more easy.
Sure, she will take longer to get UK citizenship, but times not a promlem.
Regarding the EEA route.
Please show me what I have missed, and the downfalls, pitfalls, the tripping up things.
Please, Thanks I know you guys will have the answers I need.
'vette
Mar 4th 2011, 10:08 am
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 41
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
When you say the 'A1 level examination', do you mean the English speaking requirement? Are sure it'll really cost this much, and that the requirement is this high? We did a lot of research around this a few months back and the Cambridge exams would have cost us around $100 SGD, but only IELTS - general, was available is SG and we through that was expensive a $300 SGD.
Its your call entirely ofcourse and based on your own commitments etc, but personnally the thought of moving to an inbetween country to save on the paperwork would not appeal to me, once you factor in all the extra costs of setting up residence, extra flights etc, I think it will cost a lot more than the 1st option. Unless perhaps there's more to it and you're worried that you won't meet the 'paperwork' requirements of the 1st option...
Its your call entirely ofcourse and based on your own commitments etc, but personnally the thought of moving to an inbetween country to save on the paperwork would not appeal to me, once you factor in all the extra costs of setting up residence, extra flights etc, I think it will cost a lot more than the 1st option. Unless perhaps there's more to it and you're worried that you won't meet the 'paperwork' requirements of the 1st option...
Mar 4th 2011, 3:41 pm
#3
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 306
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
When you say the 'A1 level examination', do you mean the English speaking requirement? Are sure it'll really cost this much, and that the requirement is this high? We did a lot of research around this a few months back and the Cambridge exams would have cost us around $100 SGD, but only IELTS - general, was available is SG and we through that was expensive a $300 SGD.
Its your call entirely ofcourse and based on your own commitments etc, but personnally the thought of moving to an inbetween country to save on the paperwork would not appeal to me, once you factor in all the extra costs of setting up residence, extra flights etc, I think it will cost a lot more than the 1st option. Unless perhaps there's more to it and you're worried that you won't meet the 'paperwork' requirements of the 1st option...
Its your call entirely ofcourse and based on your own commitments etc, but personnally the thought of moving to an inbetween country to save on the paperwork would not appeal to me, once you factor in all the extra costs of setting up residence, extra flights etc, I think it will cost a lot more than the 1st option. Unless perhaps there's more to it and you're worried that you won't meet the 'paperwork' requirements of the 1st option...
Hello Schbang,
It turns out that theA2 test, ( KET ) Key English Test.
This is a requirement document that needs be submitted to UK embassy when she applies for Spouse / Settlement visa.
We found a place in Beijing.
530 rnb, which is around £50.00
I know what you mean about the additional cost of renting in another country for 3 - 4 months.
We have both options open.
Its just the damn cost of the spouse visa, which now I find out is over £1000
Rip off Britain really has the arms extended.
'vette
Mar 5th 2011, 9:48 am
#4
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,294
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
I can't see how it can work out cheaper than a spouse visa.
The EU route tends to be used by people who would be refused entry to the UK. Is this your problem?
If it is just the money, the spouse visa has to be cheaper when you factor in all the costs of moving to and living in an EU country.
Last edited by formula; Mar 5th 2011 at 9:56 am.
Mar 6th 2011, 11:29 am
#6
Back from India
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 793
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
look at EEA section on www.immigrationboards.com should make it clearer
Mar 13th 2011, 3:47 pm
#7
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 11
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Looking at both myself at the moment, for my Thai wife. Although the settlement visa is pricey, i'd also say go for option one.
I believe you still have to convince them you have somewhere to stay, a job confirmed, and substantial money in the bank.
But i can't find anywhere that says how much you are expected to have.
Mar 14th 2011, 3:01 am
#8
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Somewhere to say, yes - even if this is with relatives as long as there is enough room. A confirmed job, not so much if there is money in the bank to support them whilst looking for work (and remember, the offer of a place to stay from a relative may not necessarily carry a "rent" as such).
Mar 14th 2011, 4:13 am
#9
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Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 11
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Somewhere to say, yes - even if this is with relatives as long as there is enough room. A confirmed job, not so much if there is money in the bank to support them whilst looking for work (and remember, the offer of a place to stay from a relative may not necessarily carry a "rent" as such).
How absolutely barmy is that??
At the time of application i also only had about a thousand pounds in the bank, but said 2 more salary payments would come before flying, and as i was staying with my Mother, and 4 brothers and sisters all living close by i wouldn't need any spending money anyway. Another reason used by embassy "not enough funds to support your stay".
Barmy number 2??? Do they really think i'd plan a trip to see my family, first time in 3 years, without planning finances properly??
Resulting cost, had to rearrange flights, costing an extra 1000 pounds!!
Mar 14th 2011, 4:17 am
#10
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Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 11
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Somewhere to say, yes - even if this is with relatives as long as there is enough room. A confirmed job, not so much if there is money in the bank to support them whilst looking for work (and remember, the offer of a place to stay from a relative may not necessarily carry a "rent" as such).
A confirmed job would bring in income for all 3 people if needed, including retired mother. You would not need any savings. But I BET a settlement visa requires substantial savings.
Mar 14th 2011, 6:21 am
#11
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Roaring mouse - you are talking like it should be, not how it is, unfortunately!! In any decent thinking a 3 bedroom house for 3 people, would more than suffice.
A confirmed job would bring in income for all 3 people if needed, including retired mother. You would not need any savings. But I BET a settlement visa requires substantial savings.
A confirmed job would bring in income for all 3 people if needed, including retired mother. You would not need any savings. But I BET a settlement visa requires substantial savings.
I'm not talking specifically about your case here - although I notice that it was for a tourist visa, not settlement based on marriage.
Mar 15th 2011, 6:35 am
#12
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 517
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Think you have to be working or self employed. This is called the Singh Route and it is outlined more fully below:
EUN2.14 Can family members of British citizens qualify for an EEA family permit? ('Surinder Singh' cases)
As a general rule, family members of British citizens do not qualify for an EEA family permit. Article 3 of the Directive essentially says that an EEA national cannot be considered as exercising freedom of movement in their own State -
This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them
However, where an EEA national has exercised a treaty right in another Member State as a worker or self-employed and they wish to return to their own State having exercised that right, certain provisions may apply in order for their non-EEA family members to qualify under the EEA Regulations.
A British national and his / her non-EEA national family members can only benefit from free movement rights if they meet the criteria established in the ECJ case of Surinder Singh. The case stated that nationals of a Member State who are exercising an economic Treaty right (that is, as a worker or self-employed person) in another Member State will, on return to their home state, be entitled to bring their non-EEA family members to join them under EC law.
Example: A British national is exercising an economic Treaty right in Germany and living with his non-EEA national spouse and children. On the British national's return to the UK, his non-EEA national family members can apply for an EEA family permit to join him under EC law.
The Surinder Singh judgement is incorporated into the EEA Regulations in Regulation 9. Family members of British nationals who meet the requirements of Regulation 9 are treated as family members of EEA nationals for the purposes of the EEA Regulations.
Applications for EEA family permits must meet the following criteria:
The British citizen is residing in an EEA Member State as a worker or self-employed person or was doing so before returning to the UK.
If the family member of the British citizen is their spouse or civil partner, they are living together in the EEA country or they entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in that EEA country before returning to the UK.
Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.
It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he/ she could come back to the UK with his/ her family members under EC law.
The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgement.
As a general rule, family members of British citizens do not qualify for an EEA family permit. Article 3 of the Directive essentially says that an EEA national cannot be considered as exercising freedom of movement in their own State -
This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them
However, where an EEA national has exercised a treaty right in another Member State as a worker or self-employed and they wish to return to their own State having exercised that right, certain provisions may apply in order for their non-EEA family members to qualify under the EEA Regulations.
A British national and his / her non-EEA national family members can only benefit from free movement rights if they meet the criteria established in the ECJ case of Surinder Singh. The case stated that nationals of a Member State who are exercising an economic Treaty right (that is, as a worker or self-employed person) in another Member State will, on return to their home state, be entitled to bring their non-EEA family members to join them under EC law.
Example: A British national is exercising an economic Treaty right in Germany and living with his non-EEA national spouse and children. On the British national's return to the UK, his non-EEA national family members can apply for an EEA family permit to join him under EC law.
The Surinder Singh judgement is incorporated into the EEA Regulations in Regulation 9. Family members of British nationals who meet the requirements of Regulation 9 are treated as family members of EEA nationals for the purposes of the EEA Regulations.
Applications for EEA family permits must meet the following criteria:
The British citizen is residing in an EEA Member State as a worker or self-employed person or was doing so before returning to the UK.
If the family member of the British citizen is their spouse or civil partner, they are living together in the EEA country or they entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in that EEA country before returning to the UK.
Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.
It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he/ she could come back to the UK with his/ her family members under EC law.
The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgement.
Hello all,
I have confusion, and information overload, both running around my tired brain.
What a mine field this topic is.
I have a situation, which I think, I know the answer to, but don't want to trip up at UKBA.
I am British citizen, born in UK.
My new wife is Chinese, and we are living in China.
Therfore she is Non EEA.
There are 2 routes as I understand for her to live in UK with me.
ROUTE 1 via UKBA and UK immigration
1. The Spouse visa for UK, this entails her getting an A1 level examination, in China, costing about £1000, (in English) she is excellent English speaker, just expensive.
2. Apply UK spouse visa, and pay about £1000.
Then provide about 5kg of documents and evidence of an ongoing relationship, and marriage.
This is expensive, and time consuming.
ROUTE 2. via EEA and Non EEA Spouse.
1. I move to am EEA member state, eg: Netherlands, and set up residence, (rent apartment)
2. Register with police or city hall, that I live there in my apartment
3. We exercise the 2004/38/EC and go to the Beijing Embassy of the Dutch, and request "family stay permit"
I believe this is the right name, and it is free, and must be given to her within 4 weeks.
5. We get on a plane, together to Amsterdam, and when she arrives, she also registers with the police, and city hall, that she also lives at my apartment.
6. After 3 months or more, in Netherlands, we apply for a "unknown document" which allows her unhindered entry to UK.
The EEA route is in my view, more easy.
Sure, she will take longer to get UK citizenship, but times not a promlem.
Regarding the EEA route.
Please show me what I have missed, and the downfalls, pitfalls, the tripping up things.
Please, Thanks I know you guys will have the answers I need.
'vette
I have confusion, and information overload, both running around my tired brain.
What a mine field this topic is.
I have a situation, which I think, I know the answer to, but don't want to trip up at UKBA.
I am British citizen, born in UK.
My new wife is Chinese, and we are living in China.
Therfore she is Non EEA.
There are 2 routes as I understand for her to live in UK with me.
ROUTE 1 via UKBA and UK immigration
1. The Spouse visa for UK, this entails her getting an A1 level examination, in China, costing about £1000, (in English) she is excellent English speaker, just expensive.
2. Apply UK spouse visa, and pay about £1000.
Then provide about 5kg of documents and evidence of an ongoing relationship, and marriage.
This is expensive, and time consuming.
ROUTE 2. via EEA and Non EEA Spouse.
1. I move to am EEA member state, eg: Netherlands, and set up residence, (rent apartment)
2. Register with police or city hall, that I live there in my apartment
3. We exercise the 2004/38/EC and go to the Beijing Embassy of the Dutch, and request "family stay permit"
I believe this is the right name, and it is free, and must be given to her within 4 weeks.
5. We get on a plane, together to Amsterdam, and when she arrives, she also registers with the police, and city hall, that she also lives at my apartment.
6. After 3 months or more, in Netherlands, we apply for a "unknown document" which allows her unhindered entry to UK.
The EEA route is in my view, more easy.
Sure, she will take longer to get UK citizenship, but times not a promlem.
Regarding the EEA route.
Please show me what I have missed, and the downfalls, pitfalls, the tripping up things.
Please, Thanks I know you guys will have the answers I need.
'vette
Mar 15th 2011, 1:00 pm
#13
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 11
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Take a look at this file (pdf) - it's from this page on the UKBA website, and is the internal instructions regarding maintenance & accommodation for family members. Para 6.3 indicates the amount of rooms required for different number of people. Also, proof of size of house is sometimes required (e.g. land registry info) as this can cause over-crowding.
I'm not talking specifically about your case here - although I notice that it was for a tourist visa, not settlement based on marriage.
I'm not talking specifically about your case here - although I notice that it was for a tourist visa, not settlement based on marriage.
Mar 15th 2011, 1:22 pm
#14
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 11
Re: Condradicting Info. on Non EEA spouse to UK.
Take a look at this file (pdf) - it's from this page on the UKBA website, and is the internal instructions regarding maintenance & accommodation for family members. Para 6.3 indicates the amount of rooms required for different number of people. Also, proof of size of house is sometimes required (e.g. land registry info) as this can cause over-crowding.
I'm not talking specifically about your case here - although I notice that it was for a tourist visa, not settlement based on marriage.
I'm not talking specifically about your case here - although I notice that it was for a tourist visa, not settlement based on marriage.
