British South Africa Police recruitment
#16
Re: British South Africa Police recruitment
As a FYI I cannot improve on the excellent assistance already offered by angie_329 and jmin.
#17
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
Re: British South Africa Police recruitment
The clipping from ' The Outpost'. I would have that thought that would be sufficient as it states 'from Anglesey' . But of course bureaucrats can be difficult..
On the other hand are they insisting on an unreasonable burden of proof given the difficulties in getting to original documents.
Possibly Sable aka philp gamble might know where to find the papers or what should be sufficient proof. such as what you provided., as they deal with this sort of issue. I have known cases where people are refused BC and then after a legal representative writes in pointing out the facts again they are accepted.
If records are only in Zim there is a document service called bunnyhop.co.za who got my friend her birth certificate from Bulawayo.
Possibly they may or might know someone who can get to the records in the zim national archives.
[[url=https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a/A13532365]https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a/A13532365]
http://www.archives.gov.zw/
On the other hand are they insisting on an unreasonable burden of proof given the difficulties in getting to original documents.
Possibly Sable aka philp gamble might know where to find the papers or what should be sufficient proof. such as what you provided., as they deal with this sort of issue. I have known cases where people are refused BC and then after a legal representative writes in pointing out the facts again they are accepted.
If records are only in Zim there is a document service called bunnyhop.co.za who got my friend her birth certificate from Bulawayo.
Possibly they may or might know someone who can get to the records in the zim national archives.
[[url=https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a/A13532365]https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a/A13532365]
http://www.archives.gov.zw/
The passport examiner operates on a balance of probabilities doctrine. This means that the applicant does not have to show beyond all doubt that the grandfather was recruited in the UK but he does need to show strong evidence that he was. This is why the ship logs are accepted as proof of recruitment even though they are not a service record and are not 100% accurate (person travelling from UK could be going to Rhodesia to take up work but is only officially recruited on arrival, meanwhile they put BSAP as occupation). They would also accept a newspaper clipping that stated that he was recruited in the UK or that he was leaving to take up a position in Rhodesia. The clipping is ambiguous as to the recruitment location. I take it to mean he was recruited in the UK but an equally likely meaning is that before coming to Rhodesia, he lived in Wales and worked for the police. It would help if you had some more evidence, such as from the North Wales Constabulary. Do you have access to your Grandfather's things? Is there nothing there?
Last edited by jmin; Jul 10th 2019 at 5:37 am. Reason: archives
#18
Re: British South Africa Police recruitment
I did not find him in a ship log which is not surprising, as you say, he most likely flew.
He had a second BSAP number, 8248, and received the Rhodesia General Service Medal under it in January of 1970. I would imagine that this second number was needed to issue the medal after he was discharged. You can find this medal record at wewererhodesians, it costs one credit to access but you receive two credits for free when registering.
I also found him on the rhodesian forces nominal services rolls under both service numbers but that costs NZ$10 to access so I do not know what is contained in the record - most likely just rank, unit, name, etc and not recruitment place. You can find this at rhodesianservices. Perhaps email them to enquire whether the nominal roll includes recruitment place before purchasing the record.
I take that clipping to mean he was recruited in the UK and was a police cadet in the UK up until joining the BSAP. The recruited angle, however, is not explicit which I suppose is why they are asking for more or are they? Have you tried with just this clipping?
Have you attempted to obtain the Gynedd Constabulary records on him? It is possible that there is a reason listed for his discharge that supports your case. Even in the 1960s, it does not seem likely that someone with no connection to Rhodesia and who was a lowly paid police cadet would suddenly move to Rhodesia - and by plane - particularly given the expense. I encountered a similar problem myself, although not in Rhodesia, with a Grandfather who flew to take up a more senior designated service position in the 1950s. Had he gone by ship it would have been a simple case but since he went by plane, there are no records. It was extremely frustrating given that the position was advertised in the UK, had evidence grandfather lived in the UK just up until moving to take up the position, and the prohibitive cost of airfare relative to his salary.
As far as I know, accessing the official BSAP records is difficult or impossible. I found some postings on a geneology site from years ago that the National Archives in Bulawayo had them but the more recent information from the BSAP facebook group suggests that these are closed records held by the Police and access is not possible. Have you asked the facebook group if there is any possibility of locating the official record for a fee (researcher in Zim, etc).
He had a second BSAP number, 8248, and received the Rhodesia General Service Medal under it in January of 1970. I would imagine that this second number was needed to issue the medal after he was discharged. You can find this medal record at wewererhodesians, it costs one credit to access but you receive two credits for free when registering.
I also found him on the rhodesian forces nominal services rolls under both service numbers but that costs NZ$10 to access so I do not know what is contained in the record - most likely just rank, unit, name, etc and not recruitment place. You can find this at rhodesianservices. Perhaps email them to enquire whether the nominal roll includes recruitment place before purchasing the record.
I take that clipping to mean he was recruited in the UK and was a police cadet in the UK up until joining the BSAP. The recruited angle, however, is not explicit which I suppose is why they are asking for more or are they? Have you tried with just this clipping?
Have you attempted to obtain the Gynedd Constabulary records on him? It is possible that there is a reason listed for his discharge that supports your case. Even in the 1960s, it does not seem likely that someone with no connection to Rhodesia and who was a lowly paid police cadet would suddenly move to Rhodesia - and by plane - particularly given the expense. I encountered a similar problem myself, although not in Rhodesia, with a Grandfather who flew to take up a more senior designated service position in the 1950s. Had he gone by ship it would have been a simple case but since he went by plane, there are no records. It was extremely frustrating given that the position was advertised in the UK, had evidence grandfather lived in the UK just up until moving to take up the position, and the prohibitive cost of airfare relative to his salary.
As far as I know, accessing the official BSAP records is difficult or impossible. I found some postings on a geneology site from years ago that the National Archives in Bulawayo had them but the more recent information from the BSAP facebook group suggests that these are closed records held by the Police and access is not possible. Have you asked the facebook group if there is any possibility of locating the official record for a fee (researcher in Zim, etc).
Thank you.
#19
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 7
Re: British South Africa Police recruitment
Thank you all for the advice. I will send a few emails out today to the North Wales Police and Rhodesiaservices and see what happens. I also have someone going to The National Archives in Zimbabwe. Will give an update when I get more news.
Thank you again.
Thank you again.
#20
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 7
Re: British South Africa Police recruitment
Sorry Jmin my mother was born during his 1st tour and sadly he passed away quite young and we don't have any info on him. All the info I got was from the BSAP.
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 154
Re: British South Africa Police recruitment
Look forward to the update and best of luck in your search.