British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Old Jun 6th 2018, 8:47 pm
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Default British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Hi, I am trying to find out whether I could qualify for British citizenship by double descent. My maternal grandfather was British, and my mother was born and lived in South Africa. I was born in 1978. My mother obtained her British passport a few years after I was born, though she never lived in Britain (she is now deceased as is my grandfather). I understand there has been a recent judgement which may allow me to claim British citizenship, and thus a British passport under the category 'Born before 1983 to a British mother'. I have been advised that I should apply through an immigration law expert but this is very costly. Can anyone advise on whether I would be eligible? And if so should I apply directly myself or via an immigration firm?
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Old Jun 6th 2018, 9:28 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Your mother was born and lived all her life in South Africa. So she was British by descent (i.e not born in UK but of British parent).

Therefore if YOU were also born in South Africa she could not pass on her citizenship to you.

You could probably qualify though for an Ancestry visa to allow you to live in the UK.
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Old Jun 6th 2018, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Was your maternal grandfather was born in the UK? Was your maternal grandfather was married to your maternal grandmother at the time of your mother's birth? Were your parents were married at the time of your birth? If the answer is yes to all those questions then you can now apply to be registered as a British citizen following a recent Supreme Court decision; The Advocate General for Scotland v Romein.

The OP in this thread has very similar circumstances to yourself (make sure you read the whole thing).

Remember also to apply for and receive permission from the Department of Home Affairs to retain your South African citizenship before making your application. Failure to do so before you become a British citizen will result in the loss of your South African citizenship.
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Old Jun 7th 2018, 6:01 am
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Yes, yes and yes to all questions. Thank you! Just to clarify, my grandfather was born in the UK in 1904. My mother was born in Cape Town, South Africa in 1951. I was born in Cape Town in 1978.
I was concerned that as my mother did not have her passport at the time of my birth (she received one later) that may be a problem? She obtained her British passport in the 80's I think.

Do you recommend just applying myself, or is there any value in using an immigration lawyer? The ones I have spoken to say it's a complex area, and a new untested area of law, and they need to 'argue my case' which is why, I guess, they charge so much!

Thanks for the heads up about the SA citizenship, I will follow up on that.
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Old Jun 7th 2018, 1:32 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by RosalindJane View Post
Yes, yes and yes to all questions. Thank you! Just to clarify, my grandfather was born in the UK in 1904. My mother was born in Cape Town, South Africa in 1951. I was born in Cape Town in 1978.
I was concerned that as my mother did not have her passport at the time of my birth (she received one later) that may be a problem? She obtained her British passport in the 80's I think.
That's not a problem. A passport requires you to be a citizen, a passport does not make you a citizen.

Do you recommend just applying myself, or is there any value in using an immigration lawyer? The ones I have spoken to say it's a complex area, and a new untested area of law, and they need to 'argue my case' which is why, I guess, they charge so much!

Thanks for the heads up about the SA citizenship, I will follow up on that.
It's no longer untested; Ms Romein's lawyers have argued the case for you. The application itself is free (a £80 citizenship ceremony fee will be charged if your application is successful) so I would be cautious about paying £000s to a solicitor to complete a fairly simple application for you.
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Old Jun 7th 2018, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Was your maternal grandfather was born in the UK? Was your maternal grandfather was married to your maternal grandmother at the time of your mother's birth? Were your parents were married at the time of your birth? If the answer is yes to all those questions then you can now apply to be registered as a British citizen following a recent Supreme Court decision; The Advocate General for Scotland v Romein.
.
Thanks for all this new info...... quite a decision, for lots of people.
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Old Jun 7th 2018, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by SanDiegogirl View Post
Thanks for all this new info...... quite a decision, for lots of people.
Potentially many tens of thousands. I'd be very interested to hear back from a poster about their experience if they are successful in making an application.
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Old Jun 7th 2018, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Thanks for the help. I intend to apply and will hopefully report back with positive results!
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Old Jun 8th 2018, 12:44 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

A most interesting case BIP. Here are some links to the Judgement for those who want to read further.. There are a couple of explanatory notices on legal sites- Doyle Clayton explains that birth of applicant must be between 1949 and !981. Interesting, as I know someone born in 1947 in SA to SA born mother who was refused BC after the 2003 :legislation, as not born in a Protectorate /British Territory. There was no reference to non registration in the refusal though 1922 (b) (v) allows for this (at the time for those born of BC father. The applicant's Grandfather recruited in UK for the Boer warr , though that fact not of use in that time. Grandmother also UK born. The judges seem to be saying that their ruling now will not give rise to discrimination between those born before 1949 and those after?

Any comments on this BIP? Could there be further test cases on this point of pre 1949 births I wonder.

The Advocate General for Scotland v Romein (Scotland) (Rev 1) [2018] UKSC 6 (8 February 2018)

The Advocate General for Scotland v Romein [2018] UKSC 6 | Axiom Advocates

https://www.doyleclayton.co.uk/resou...h-citizenship/

Quote: 'This decision means that a person born outside the UK between 1949 and 1983 to a British mother can now apply for registration as a British citizen, regardless of whether their birth was registered at a British Consulate. A far wider group of people are therefore likely to be eligible to apply for British citizenship by ‘double descent’- the passing of British citizenship from a second generation to a third generation'
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Old Sep 4th 2018, 2:51 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
That's not a problem. A passport requires you to be a citizen, a passport does not make you a citizen.



It's no longer untested; Ms Romein's lawyers have argued the case for you. The application itself is free (a £80 citizenship ceremony fee will be charged if your application is successful) so I would be cautious about paying £000s to a solicitor to complete a fairly simple application for you.
Hi All.
I have a Home Office fees page (dated 6th April 2018) which states that the fee for registration is 1206 Pounds plus 80 Pounds
for the ceremony. Does this fee only come into effect if ones application is accepted?

Thanks in advance
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Old Sep 4th 2018, 2:54 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Originally Posted by jwwp View Post
Hi All.
I have a Home Office fees page (dated 6th April 2018) which states that the fee for registration is 1206 Pounds plus 80 Pounds
for the ceremony. Does this fee only come into effect if ones application is accepted?

Thanks in advance
I suspect you're looking at the wrong type of registration. You want UKM.
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Old Sep 4th 2018, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Thank you for the UKM info.
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Old Oct 24th 2018, 12:22 pm
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Hi BritinParis - you seem very knowledgeable and I was wondering if you could offer some advice please? I called the Home Office and they were very vague. My husband and his older brother qualify for British citizenship by double descent under this new Romein judgement. Can they submit their applications together in the same envelope as they naturally have only one original of each of the required documents? Each one would fill out their own application forms and pay their own fees. Also we are unsure of how to answer question 1.23 “state how your mother acquired British Citizenship?” - is it by law (section 5 of the British Nationality Act) or purely by descent as her father was born in the UK? They ask for a certificate number but their mom just has the passport and is not aware of any certificate that was issued? Do they also need to supply a lengthy legal argument as to why they now qualify for British citizenship? Sorry for all these questions but the lawyers want to charge them 1600 pounds to submit on their behalf and make us believe that it is a non-standard/complicated route to citizenship which requires their assistance?
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Old Oct 25th 2018, 1:38 am
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

The applications can go in the same envelope - make sure it’s clear however that there are two separate applications.

There’s no such thing as ‘by law’ - S.5 BNA 1948 is by descent. Where and when was she born?

There’s no certificate number to provide if she was British by descent at birth.

No need to provide a legal argument. Your husband and his brother may wish to write a brief covering note explaining that they understand that they qualify for registration following the Romein case but no more than that.
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Old Oct 25th 2018, 11:15 am
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Default Re: British citizenship by double descent - Do I qualify?

Dear BritinParis, thank you so much for these much-needed answers. Their mother was born in South Africa in 1952. They were born there too in 1974 and 1976. We conducted a status trace through the lawyers and the outcome was favorable as they meet all the criteria following the Romein case. We’ll be submitting in about 6-8 weeks as we have a few outstanding documents that need to be issued by our department of home affairs.
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