CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
It's not a good story.. In fact it's a damn sorry story. It's true too.
I’ll start with the divorce.. The reason I went for divorce was because my ex wife, had arranged people (plus relatives of hers) who, on the 19th September 2003 went to my factory, broke the door down and cleared the office of all equipment and documents. The following day she came to our apartment with her brother plus three thugs who beat me. She forced Devon our son to watch this and there were many many witnesses. Devon was crying and screaming “don’t hit daddy, don’t hit daddy”, he was 2 ½ years old at that time. My lawyer says there is no requirement for a judge to give one parent or the other rights to see their child. However he says it’s strange as both parents requested custody. The other thing he says is the judgement gives basically everything to my ex wife.. He says this is incredibly unfair. They chose to ignore my personal debt. The other thing, is her personal debt was made up of pieces of paper which she had signed for borrowing money. We know these are false as one of the people who was supposed to have made this document, her cousin Chen Xue Xue actually said, when the documents were presented.. “What are those?? I never signed any bits of paper.” Because of this we had the handwriting verified (which the judge arranged). The result was that the signatures were genuine.. This is the first real evidence of bias/corruption. The next evidence was the Chinese passport made for my son. He already had British Nationality and had left and re-entered the country on this passport. The interesting thing to note is the application form used for making the Chinese passport. The judgment is impossible. If it is correct it changed Chinese Nationality Law.. Not only that.. Any Chinese/Foreign nationals who have their second child in China are breaking the family law one child policy and should be punished. In fact they get around this law by simply making a foreign passport for their first, or second child. Also.. the judges, during court hearings twice ordered my wife to bring my son in to let me see him.. She ignored them and they did nothing. So I applied against the PSB and lost both the case and the appeal.. Impossible. The divorce took 18 months to come through and the visiting rights another year or more. I now have legal rights to see my son but my wife ignores the court and they do nothing to enforce my rights. I was imprisoned for two reasons.. I’ve been imprisoned three times. The first was for “refusing” to pay the divorce settlement. I have told them many many times I was unable to pay 300,000 RMB cash. They insisted I pay this amount in one payment.. I offered to pay in monthly installments as is my right. However they refuse to let me make an official offer of installment payments so they have mad it appear I simply refuse to pay. In order to imprison me they must have proof I have the money. According to the law here. They said to a representative on the New Zealand Consulate, Paul Rothville, their proof was that I owned a car. When he actually pointed out to the court that the car was borrowed, they told him that I had a Chinese driving license and that was proof enough to show I had the 300,000 Rmb.. !!! The other imprisonment was for assault.. I have recordings of my ex wife stating she can have me put in prison any time she likes. She is a personal friend of the Chief of police here, Wu Bo Ren. They first pulled me off the street, last December.. Then after a hearing and an appeal I was put inside again. My last time, in prison for assault.. amazingly enough.. I was at two places at the same time doing two different things. The police provided "evidence" 3 months after the "event", two months after the time any evidence could be legally accepted and the person providing the evidence was not actually legally qualified to do so. I lost that case and an appeal.. The judge just ignored all the evidence I had provided and basically said I had failed to refute the evidence provided by the police.. In other words I had failed to prove myself innocent!!. So they locked me up. This time I was made to assemble christmas decorations for the Coca Cola Company. You should check out their website and what they say about using prison labour for manufacturing their products. The good thing is one of the prison warders who is disgusted with the corruption in this city of Ningbo, recorded the products being made and got me a copy.. Not good quality but.. Just recently, when I went to the court to ask why my ex wife is not being punished, the enforcement officer, Mr Shen told me they were not going to enforce my visiting rights and if I want to find my ex wife I should go and do it. The other enforcement officer, Mr Liu, who was responsible for imprisoning me for “refusing to pay the divorce settlement” grabbed my bag, which I grabbed back. About 6 court officers then proceeded to beat me up. They then took 1600 rmb of cash from it and confiscated my passport.. They have not returned my passport to me. I now have no legal options left to see my son. This has all resulted as corruption and racism.. Anyone any suggestions? I'm all out of them. Jon Sims. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
If you and your son are British passport holders, go to the embassy.
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Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by Desert Dweller
If you and your son are British passport holders, go to the embassy.
Thanks |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by simsjk
I haven't seen him since 2003. I've spent loads on PI's who are ripping me off.. Once I've found him I will. I need to know what protections they can give me without asking them or letting them know and if I can get protected passage back to England.. Perhaps you can tell me?
Thanks I was under the impression if one of the parents were foreign, then they could have as many children as they wanted. Albeit with money and the infamous guanxi. Where were you based in China? I recognise the NZ Consulate's name you mentioned. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by C&R
"Any Chinese/Foreign nationals who have their second child in China are breaking the family law one child policy and should be punished. In fact they get around this law by simply making a foreign passport for their first, or second child"
I was under the impression if one of the parents were foreign, then they could have as many children as they wanted. Albeit with money and the infamous guanxi. Where were you based in China? I recognise the NZ Consulate's name you mentioned. Article 9 of the Chinese nationality law is as follows.; [Article 9] Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality. The criminals who run the courts here decided as my son was born in China he was still Chinese.. It is an impossible decision and really does change the status of all Children born in China of mixed nationality parentage.. The courts here have re-written the Chinese Nationality Law. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by simsjk
I haven't seen him since 2003. I've spent loads on PI's who are ripping me off.. Once I've found him I will. I need to know what protections they can give me without asking them or letting them know and if I can get protected passage back to England.. Perhaps you can tell me?
Thanks http://www.uk.cn/bj/consular_index.a...d=530&artid=38 What kind of help we can provide This page gives advice about what help we can provide if you do get into difficulty. We offer help which is appropriate to the individual circumstances of each case, including:
UK law says we have to charge for some services. Consulates display the current fees and the standards of service you can expect under Service First. We cannot...
The Consul General responsible for Ningbo should be the one in Shanghai. Here's the contact information: Consular Section British Consulate-General Shanghai, Suite 319, Shanghai Center, 1376 Nanjing Xi Lu Shanghai 200040 Phone: (+86) (0) 21 6279 8576, 6279 8918 Fax: (+86) (0) 21 6279 7651 Email:[email protected] Good luck with everything and let us know how you get on. Mrs JTL |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
What could you possibly have done to deserve such disrespect from your wife? I know separations can be acrimonious but to allow her son to witness your beating is unforgivable.
I guess on the bright side you are still alive? Having said that you’re no use to her dead are you; unless that is she has a copy of your life insurance policy? Now that reminds me of that poor chap who got BBQ by his Thai wife. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
The least you should do is register the issue with the embassy so you have recourse when/if it gets any worse.
They may not even be able to help you now as you have commited crimes in China. i suspect there is more to this and we are only getting one side. Turning to a web forum for help is not really a good way forward. I really do hope you get this sorted though with the least additional accrimony as possible. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by simsjk
The one Child policy applies to all people in china.. The law is the law (well.. you'd think so). If your child is born in China and one parent is Chinese, the child is immediately chinese. You have to take out foreign nationality for the child and when the child leaves the country on this passport becomes officially foreign and will need an entry visa to re-enter the country.
Article 9 of the Chinese nationality law is as follows.; [Article 9] Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality. The criminals who run the courts here decided as my son was born in China he was still Chinese.. It is an impossible decision and really does change the status of all Children born in China of mixed nationality parentage.. The courts here have re-written the Chinese Nationality Law. What the embassy will not do is pretty much everything.. They've done nothing in 3 years and they continue to do that with much tact and diplomacy. I am on my own in this situation. When police and judges beat you up and take your passport off you and the embassy simply give you a passport application form, you know you're not going to get help there. What isnt written on the Embassy page is how far they have to go to protect you once you are in the embassy compound. I need to know that.. The police here are threatening to kill me and I need to find out from someone who knows this sort of stuff, that if I turn up at the embassy, they are not going to turn me out on the street.. I need to find a specific "document" which states what the embassy is committed to doing instead of the wishy wasy stuff about visiting you in hospital. I need to find that out.. I need to tell all expacts that the Courts and Police in Ningbo City here are racist and corrupt. There isnt' a single foreign invested company which hasn't suffered at the hands of these evil people. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by Tortuga
What could you possibly have done to deserve such disrespect from your wife? I know separations can be acrimonious but to allow her son to witness your beating is unforgivable.
I guess on the bright side you are still alive? Having said that you’re no use to her dead are you; unless that is she has a copy of your life insurance policy? Now that reminds me of that poor chap who got BBQ by his Thai wife. When you have powerful and racist contacts, you can achieve great things. She didn't allow my son to watch me lying on the floor whilst the feet were raining in.. SHE FORCED HIM TO WATCH.. SHE HELD HIS HEAD. Our eyes just locked onto each other and for me, I felt nothing else but the pain of seeing my son tormented in this way. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by Desert Dweller
The least you should do is register the issue with the embassy so you have recourse when/if it gets any worse.
They may not even be able to help you now as you have commited crimes in China. i suspect there is more to this and we are only getting one side. Turning to a web forum for help is not really a good way forward. I really do hope you get this sorted though with the least additional accrimony as possible. I feel sorry for you. You cannot see the truth. Mind you, most people cannot see the truth. They prefer lies. By assuming I am lying you are assuming the police here are not corrupt and racist...!!!! I no longer have a lawyer as he is scared for his own family and livelihood. Read my stories in the Mail on Sunday and the Times of london. They are true. If you want me to send you the videos of the coca cola products being made in prison, I will do. I do not have to lie. Everything I have said is the truth. I was imprisoned for having a chinese driving license as that is proof I have large amounts of cash! The court did not tell that to me. They said it to the embassy official. Are you going to accuse an embassy official of helping the lie, especially when they have done absolutely nothing else? I joined this public forum for a number of reasons. I need to get my story out and I need to have this situation thoroughly scrutinised by the correct officials in Beijing. That is what is going to happen eventually. So, if I lie, the lie will be discovered and everything I have been fighting for will be lost. I'm sorry.. why is it you think I should lie? |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by Desert Dweller
The least you should do is register the issue with the embassy so you have recourse when/if it gets any worse.
They may not even be able to help you now as you have commited crimes in China. i suspect there is more to this and we are only getting one side. Turning to a web forum for help is not really a good way forward. I really do hope you get this sorted though with the least additional accrimony as possible. Turning to a web forum for help is not really a good way forward. I really do hope you get this sorted though with the least additional accrimony as possible What do you suggest??? I've run out of legal ways to get to see my son.. I even have legal rights to see my son given to me by the court, but the court, because that woman has powerful contacts and they are racist, refuses to do anything. I have bent the ears of people in The embassies, the Foreign office, MP's , the royal family, people everywhere. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST? CHRIST.. IF I WAS A CRIMINAL AND IN PRISON I WOULD HAVE RIGHTS TO SEE MY SON. My mistake is not having done anything wrong. But forget me for a minute? What has my son done??? He also deserves not to see his daddy, who don't forget was living with me and I had custody of the child when this woman decided to take him away from me. He has rights according to the United Nations Rights of a Child.. China is a fully signed up member. The UN, The Embassies and the Courts here think me invoking that law is a joke. SO I HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHTS AND NO LEGAL PROTECTION. NEITHER DOES MY SON.. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST I DO????? Chief of police here.. Force about the size of the Devon and Cornwall constabulary, personally changed a $25 dollar fine to a prison term.. That is impossible.. It's not just illegal, it's impossible.. It would be like the Chief of Devon and Cornwall constabulary personally issuing an arrest warrant for an unpaid parking ticket. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IN 3 YEARS I HAVE NOT EXHAUSTED ALL POSSIBLITIES?? |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Hey Jonothan, after a bit of digging, I found this posted on the web about you. I'm not doubting what you're saying here but are there any elements of truth in what the person says?
I know this british guy. he is very famous in ningbo for his bad behaviour and rude actions. the truth of the story is this british guy wanted to abduct his son out of china and then force his wife to leave him and their house. now i'd like to tell you the record of this british guy. around 1996 he came from newzealand with empty hands and just looking for some chances in china for making fortune. under the great help of her ex-wife, he established the so-called factory. his wife helped to pruchase his house and helped to go through all the official red-tapes for establishing his factory just after ten days of giving birth to their hybrid baby. and she was forced by this guy to leave bed when she needed rest to recover from labor and often beaten by this guy after the birth. oh god! you are the witness for all the ill treatment and evils this guy had ever done to his wife and son. how could such a thug assert to be unfairly treated. he drove his car crazily in streets in ningbo and other cities around china. and many times did he bump and assault other chinese normal people. He broke the basic rule living in a forein country DO IN ROME AS ROMAN DOES. In our british circle who are living currently in china this british guy just humiliate us and our nation for his xenophobia and ill action done to innocent chinese friends. he's got a bad name on herself. the story given by him is bullshit. Mrs JTL |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by JackTheLad
Hey Jonothan, after a bit of digging, I found this posted on the web about you. I'm not doubting what you're saying here but are there any elements of truth in what the person says?
Like Dessert Dweller says we're only hearing one side of the story from you. We don't know you. Could you not get any help from family/friends in the UK? Mrs JTL That is very interesting.. I've also got copies of news stories in the local papers here which say I'm a criminal and have actually been to prison overseas. Can you give me the web site details. This looks like the workings of her brother. If you notice.. "he's got a bad name on herself." The mixing up of the genders is a very common Chinese mistake. I came to China in 1995. I didn't know my ex wife until 2000 and that is why this person has got the date of my coming to China wrong. Why is his English so good? Because I forked out the money for him to go to England and study English at Manchester University. In his holidays this person stayed with my mother in Torquay. The first thing he did when he came back to China was to come to Ningbo with his "mates" and beat me whilst his sister took my son.. He is a public prosecutor in the Shanghai Court system and a part of the corruption is coming from this avenue. Please send me the web page address. Thanks |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by simsjk
Jack..
That is very interesting.. I've also got copies of news stories in the local papers here which say I'm a criminal and have actually been to prison overseas. Can you give me the web site details. This looks like the workings of her brother. If you notice.. "he's got a bad name on herself." The mixing up of the genders is a very common Chinese mistake. I came to China in 1995. I didn't know my ex wife until 2000 and that is why this person has got the date of my coming to China wrong. Why is his English so good? Because I forked out the money for him to go to England and study English at Manchester University. In his holidays this person stayed with my mother in Torquay. The first thing he did when he came back to China was to come to Ningbo with his "mates" and beat me whilst his sister took my son.. He is a public prosecutor in the Shanghai Court system and a part of the corruption is coming from this avenue. Please send me the web page address. Thanks http://www.indymedia.org/en/2004/05/853582.shtml Mrs JTL |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Have you tried contacting the Consul in Hong Kong? I know they're not responsible for Ningbo but perhaps they would be more sympathetic? They might be better staffed and possibly more interesting in things other than just trades and investment in China like other Chinese offices might be.
British Consulate-General 1 Supreme Court Road Hong Kong (PO Box 528) Main switchboard: (852) 2901 3000 Telephone: Fax: UK Trade & Investment (852) 2901 3182 (852) 2901 3066 Press & Public Affairs (852) 2901 3277 (852) 2901 3008 Consular (852) 2901 3281 (852) 2901 3204 Visa (852) 2901 3111 (852) 2901 3347 UKRP & Entry Clearance (852) 2901 3231 (852) 2901 3274 British Citizen Passport (852) 2901 3262 (852) 2901 3143 BN(O) Passport (852) 2901 3222 (852) 2901 3046 Management (852) 2901 3000 (852) 2901 3007 Out of office hours Consular Emergency Service: Tel: (852) 2901 3000 E-mail: [email protected] (UK Trade & Investment) [email protected] (Press & Public Affairs) [email protected] (Consular) [email protected] (Visa) [email protected] (UKRP & Entry Clearance) [email protected] (British Citizen Passport) [email protected] (BN(O) Passport) Another suggestion is to go to press with your story to put more pressure on the officials? I know you said you've tried the British ones. How about the South China Morning Post? It's the leading English newspaper in Hong Kong and is read by the entire expat community as well as many locals who have contacts in China. I know you've been through all means imaginable but just thought you might want to give these suggestions a go. Good luck, Mrs JTL |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
"I know this british guy. he is very famous in ningbo for his bad behaviour and rude actions. the truth of the story is this british guy wanted to abduct his son out of china and then force his wife to leave him and their house. now i'd like to tell you the record of this british guy. around 1996 he came from newzealand with empty hands and just looking for some chances in china for making fortune.
under the great help of her ex-wife, he established the so-called factory. his wife helped to pruchase his house and helped to go through all the official red-tapes for establishing his factory just after ten days of giving birth to their hybrid baby. and she was forced by this guy to leave bed when she needed rest to recover from labor and often beaten by this guy after the birth. oh god! you are the witness for all the ill treatment and evils this guy had ever done to his wife and son. how could such a thug assert to be unfairly treated. he drove his car crazily in streets in ningbo and other cities around china. and many times did he bump and assault other chinese normal people. He broke the basic rule living in a forein country DO IN ROME AS ROMAN DOES. In our british circle who are living currently in china this british guy just humiliate us and our nation for his xenophobia and ill action done to innocent chinese friends. he's got a bad name on herself. the story given by him is bullshit." This is definately written by a Chinese person, it bears the typical chinglish/grammer traits. Have you contacted the Consulate in Shanghai at all? And if so, who did you speak to? The Consulate in Hong Kong won't touch this case, its the Shanghai Consulate who should be getting involved. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Also, you state you have been in China trying to get your son back since 2003, have the police kept your passport since then? and in the process, how are you renewing your Chinese visas?
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Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by C&R
Also, you state you have been in China trying to get your son back since 2003, have the police kept your passport since then? and in the process, how are you renewing your Chinese visas?
You are asking me when my passport was taken away. It was taken away about a month ago.. This is strictly illegal. Not only that, six court officials threw me up against the wall, beat me and took my passport. The embassy suggested I apply for a new passport.. Now.. that is really the level of support you get from your embassy unless you are american.. You can sue the american embassies... I hope your mind is at ease now that you know when my passport was taken away. Also.. thanks for your vaulable suggestion as I was asking for. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Hang on a minute, I asked questions to clarify the situation, not to doubt what you are saying. They are legitimate questions with regards to your Chinese visa/resident status and passport situation.
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Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by C&R
Hang on a minute, I asked questions to clarify the situation, not to doubt what you are saying. They are legitimate questions with regards to your Chinese visa/resident status and passport situation.
My son's nationality has been illegally stolen. The Embassy does nothing. The courts and police here laugh at me. The fact of the matter is. The very people charged with protecting the law are blatantly abusing it. It's not even a little bit subtle. It's a gross and obscene abuse of their own law. This is happening because of 1) They are incredibly racist here 2) My ex wife has made some very powerful connetions. I now have exhausted all legal avenues. I love my son, he loves me but over the last 3 years he will have been brainwashed. I have recordings of my ex wife on the phone saying she can have me put in prison anytime she wants. What would you do??? |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by simsjk
Sorry.. I don't mean to be rude, but the passport and visa issue is not the problem. The problem is that neither I nor my son have had any rights or protection which is written into the chinese law books.. Not only that, I have been beaten up twice now, my factory has been robbed, my son is being denied legal rights to see his father and I am being denied my legal right now to see my son.
My son's nationality has been illegally stolen. The Embassy does nothing. The courts and police here laugh at me. The fact of the matter is. The very people charged with protecting the law are blatantly abusing it. It's not even a little bit subtle. It's a gross and obscene abuse of their own law. This is happening because of 1) They are incredibly racist here 2) My ex wife has made some very powerful connetions. I now have exhausted all legal avenues. I love my son, he loves me but over the last 3 years he will have been brainwashed. I have recordings of my ex wife on the phone saying she can have me put in prison anytime she wants. What would you do??? |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by C&R
The passport and visa staus is an issue. How are you residing in the country legally. No-one can legally confiscate your passport without interference from the British Consulate. I am beginning to think there is more to this then you are letting on. Have you been threatened with deportation and this is why the Consulate won't intervene?
You must chose to believe what you will. This thing sounds so far fetched that most people find it unbelievable. Search my story in "The London Times" and the mail on sunday.. Sadly, even they have lost interest in my plight.. The last time I was illegally imprisoned I was making coca cola christmas decorations to pass the time... I've been in touch with coca cola.. they don't care!!! Nobody Cares. I appreciate your scepticism. However, I've tried to open a forum here to maybe get some advice about what I can do next.. Remember I have no legal options open to me. So.. please.. My passort is not a problem.. The problem is people thinking they are above the law, and not only that, proving it because nobody can be bothered to do anything to stop this. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by simsjk
Ok.. there is more than I am letting on.. There is three years worth of illegal abuse and corruption and racism..
There is no other way to say this as you will presume I am accusing you of lying but there is only one thing to do at this stage: GO TO THE EMBASSY. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
Originally Posted by Desert Dweller
So when I said there were 2 sides to this story I was possibly heading somewhere. you didn't think to drop this into the conversation?
There is no other way to say this as you will presume I am accusing you of lying but there is only one thing to do at this stage: GO TO THE EMBASSY. I am in contact with the embassy every day.. I have to give false names to the secretary so they will pick up the phone otherwise they are always at meetings. I see this is the wrong forum for me. I'll say this. I am the innocent party here. I have done nothing wrong and nothing illegal. Why is that statement so hard to believe. If you doubt me and think I'm a liar, why do you still bother to write here? If I am a liar Im' hardly going to change my "story" after three years because you say so. |
Re: CHINA and something that happens to "other people"
I'm sorry but this forum is really not the right place for this discussion and so I am closing this thread.
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